It's hard to to good and easy to do bad

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

We are never apart from the left or the right. Both are required, and we need to struggle with and engage with both. The left handed path is in many traditions the path of awe, discipline and strength, and of equanimity. And that is needed every bit as much as the right-handed path of lovingkindness and compassion.

Whereas in other traditions the left-hand path is the path of seeking selfish fulfilment for the personal ego while the right-hand path is the selfless service of the Soul. Awe, discipline, strength and equanimity are just as much qualities of the right-hand path as loving kindness and compassion. Disciples on the Path have to struggle with the temptations of the left-hand path until they reach the stage where they are beyond such temptations.

As always, it comes down to how we define things.

Peace

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Whereas in other traditions the left-hand path is the path of seeking selfish fulfilment for the personal ego while the right-hand path is the selfless service of the Soul. Awe, discipline, strength and equanimity are just as much qualities of the right-hand path as loving kindness and compassion. Disciples on the Path have to struggle with the temptations of the left-hand path until they reach the stage where they are beyond such temptations.

As always, it comes down to how we define things.

Peace

As a practitioner of the Left Hand path, I must disagree with this summation.

In my experience, those who follow the way of the esoteric or the occult, or Tantra (in my case) are also in selfless service to the Soul, but our means are different...and those means have been viewed as being "dark" or "evil" or "satanic" by those who follow the more moral, puritanical and exclusive dogmas for example, the Christian Church.

We understand that Spirituality requires a more holistic approach than just being in "service to the Light" or those ideals of "goodness" or "unconditional love" or any perceived expectations (as totally unrealistic as they may be) which a God would expect from us in order to become "pure" or "holy".

In Tantra, we have a maxim; "We rise through that which makes us fall" knowing full well that if we are to constantly repeat a behavior which others deem "unacceptable", we would soon get tired of it... get bored with it and move on.

Yes, the external perception is different for everyone concerned and to one who is say a Gaudiya Vaishnava, it would be quite difficult to understand an Aghori and vice versa. The puritan would say "they are practicing black magic to hex people" but we can also be practicing "black magic" to reach the same level of spiritual awareness and awakening as those who practice "white magic" do..it is just a different path is taken to achieve the same outcome because both the "right hand path" and the 'left hand path" reach the same destination ultimately in that there is no "right" or "left" or "path" anyway.

This is the easiest way I can explain it.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

As a practitioner of the Left Hand path, I must disagree with this summation.

In my experience, those who follow the way of the esoteric or the occult, or Tantra (in my case) are also in selfless service to the Soul, but our means are different...and those means have been viewed as being "dark" or "evil" or "satanic" by those who follow the more moral, puritanical and exclusive dogmas for example, the Christian Church.

We understand that Spirituality requires a more holistic approach than just being in "service to the Light" or those ideals of "goodness" or "unconditional love" or any perceived expectations (as totally unrealistic as they may be) which a God would expect from us in order to become "pure" or "holy".

In Tantra, we have a maxim; "We rise through that which makes us fall" knowing full well that if we are to constantly repeat a behavior which others deem "unacceptable", we would soon get tired of it... get bored with it and move on.

Yes, the external perception is different for everyone concerned and to one who is say a Gaudiya Vaishnava, it would be quite difficult to understand an Aghori and vice versa. The puritan would say "they are practicing black magic to hex people" but we can also be practicing "black magic" to reach the same level of spiritual awareness and awakening as those who practice "white magic" do..it is just a different path is taken to achieve the same outcome because both the "right hand path" and the 'left hand path" reach the same destination ultimately in that there is no "right" or "left" or "path" anyway.

This is the easiest way I can explain it.

Again, it comes down to how we define the left- and right-hand paths. I would not consider occult or tantric practices in themselves as being of the left-hand path. It depends on the motivations of those who practice and whether they seek to serve the lower self or the Higher Self. But that is just my definition.

Peace

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Again, it comes down to how we define the left- and right-hand paths. I would not consider occult or tantric practices in themselves as being of the left-hand path. It depends on the motivations of those who practice and whether they seek to serve the lower self or the Higher Self. But that is just my definition.

Peace

This is fair enough, but instead of launching into an essay or synopsis on Vāmācāra because I have a migraine, I am just gonna let Wiki take this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vamachara

[Dargor]

tbh I find it more difficult to do good without selfish motives. A while ago I gave a coin to a local fire dancer on the streets (even though I didn't have to) but I did it solely because I fundamentally believe any talent and hard work should be rewarded and deserves recognition.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

This is fair enough, but instead of launching into an essay or synopsis on Vāmācāra because I have a migraine, I am just gonna let Wiki take this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vamachara

I understand where you are coming from, SD. Looking at a book called Sadhus, Holy Men of India (unfortunately, this book does not cover female Sadhus) I find the following statement:

There is a metaphysical logic behind the deviant behaviour of the Aghoris which defines them as real ascetics and not just 'degraded' madmen. They aspire to a state of enlightenment in which there is no differentiation between opposites and no distinction between the soul and the Absolute. The Aghori way of dissolving this metaphysical duality is to insist unconditionally on the identity of mundane opposites - bad is good, death is life, dirty is clean - and to act it out concretely.

So they may drink out of a human skull or live in a cemetery or smear themselves with the ashes from a funeral pyre and walk around naked. Of course, if you try to do that in Sydney then the authorities might not understand.

Peace.

[JosephineB]

but I did it solely because I fundamentally believe any talent and hard work should be rewarded and deserves recognition.

Surely that's doing what feels right and fair. Not selfishness.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I understand where you are coming from, SD. Looking at a book called Sadhus, Holy Men of India (unfortunately, this book does not cover female Sadhus) I find the following statement:

There is a metaphysical logic behind the deviant behaviour of the Aghoris which defines them as real ascetics and not just 'degraded' madmen. They aspire to a state of enlightenment in which there is no differentiation between opposites and no distinction between the soul and the Absolute. The Aghori way of dissolving this metaphysical duality is to insist unconditionally on the identity of mundane opposites - bad is good, death is life, dirty is clean - and to act it out concretely.

So they may drink out of a human skull or live in a cemetery or smear themselves with the ashes from a funeral pyre and walk around naked. Of course, if you try to do that in Sydney then the authorities might not understand.

Peace.

LOL

Yeah, for a Sadhvi (female sadhu), life in a Western country is difficult and such activities like walking around naked and holy ash (vibhuti) smearing, must be done in the privacy of one's room.

It is also difficult to obtain a human skull, although I will occasionally meditate in a graveyard at night...however, doing the exact opposite of what it is that everybody wants me to do or believes I should be doing, comes naturally for me...I am a rebel WITH a cause!

Added to the general practice are mantras, mudras and I am allergic to alcohol, so I smoke weed ritually once a month... worshiping Bhairava...other things..

The only side of it which needs more work is the side of ascetism and discipline...for so long now I have wanted to do the 16 Somvar Vrat Katha (weekly fasting on Mondays)...I have been procrastinating for years..

However, penance isn't even a thing that those on the Right Hand Path do anymore, isn't it?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Why it's so hard to choose the good action and so easy to choose the bad action?

Getting back to this.

The notion of "good" and "bad" is what society deems appropriate at any given point in history and these notions are reinforced by conditioned guilt... usually resulting in either acceptance or banishment from any particular social group.

I have noticed that some things which were once "good" during the 1970s and 1980s are now "bad" simply due to the fact that a few idiots abused the privilege, distorted the intention and illustrated the shortcomings of these "good things" and so, now we have terms like "risk assessment" and "harm reduction/minimization" making it much easier to do "bad things" simply due to the fact that now, there are more "bad things" TO do!

I live life on the fringes of society, which also gives me the freedom to do whatever the hell I WANT (within the law, of course) the price I had to pay for that, is having no friends and no social life whatsoever because the less people I am "answerable to", the better.

The only one I am "answerable to" is God and so, what others say is "bad" has absolutely no relevance whatsoever - it is all what I believe to be so in my own heart.

It is bad that I don't meditate every day...only a few times a week. It is bad that my breakfast consisted of a chocolate chip muffin and a cup of coffee...it is bad that I haven't washed the dishes in three days...

Why is it so easy to choose the "bad option"? because it takes no extra effort!
It means moving out of our comfort zone and creating a different lifestyle and mindset and our neurons have been wired SO hard and for SO long, that we become "creatures of habit".

Changing a "bad habit" takes discipline, motivation, commitment, dedication, patience, perseverance, willpower, fortitude, stoicism..

So, many of us put it in the "too hard basket" and continue putting rubbish in our mouths, not exercising as much as our body requires, skimping on the sadhana, not having a set time for sleeping and waking up...and our mantra becomes "I just can't be bothered".

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

Surely that's doing what feels right and fair. Not selfishness.

Selfish people also believe they are doing things right by serving their own needs while trampling other people. Although I gained nothing from this deed, it was theoretically still selfish. But then again, kindness is rooted in selfishness.