Question about karma (in Buddhism)

Originally Posted by Shaunc

You don't cleanse karma. Whatever you have done, said or thought these karmic consequence of that action will come to fruition at some stage.
We've all done wrong in our lives at some point, so all we can really do are some positive thoughts, words and deeds to try and accumulate some good karma to weigh up, or better still outweigh the bad karma.
Good luck and best wishes.

So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition?

Originally Posted by Shaunc

You don't cleanse karma. Whatever you have done, said or thought these karmic consequence of that action will come to fruition at some stage.
We've all done wrong in our lives at some point, so all we can really do are some positive thoughts, words and deeds to try and accumulate some good karma to weigh up, or better still outweigh the bad karma.
Good luck and best wishes.

So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition? If so, then is this just a scales of justice sort of thing, where the good actions need not be related to the bad ones? Or would the good actions need to be related to "undoing" the bad actions or at least altering their trajectory so that they do not lead to the bad outcome?
What I am getting at is whether this Karma system is a scales of justice idea where good deeds pay off debts created by bad deeds, or if this is a trial and error sort of thing where you keep adjusting your path until you stop driving back around in a circle and hitting the same pot hole over and over again.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by ketzer

So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition?

In Buddhist philosophy, 'kamma' refers to the volition. The volition is 'cause' and past volitions have created potentials which will manifest to conscious awareness when all the conditions come together. That's destiny and you can't do anything about that. The idea that good deeds wash out and prevent these manifestations is not consistent with Buddhist philosophy. Ill intent of the past is going to manifest in a bad way (just as it has always done), and when it does the person can continue the habit of reacting with aversion and craving more desirable experiences, and thus perpetuate misery, or cease reacting like that and accept it because it is true.



The meditation is to cease the volitions by coming to peace with the past and the destiny already created. To cease reacting to the manifesting circumstances with aversions and desires, and thereby be at peace with circumstances regardless of what they are, and thus undermine the wish for things to be otherwise, thereby bringing volition to an end and stopping kamma causes altogether. That equanimity of mind lets the old potentials manifest as they are wont to do (without resistance, avoidance or desirous, clingng reactivity) and you do not add any new potentials by generating kamma, and in this way the 'stockpile' starts to empty out in a process of purification.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ketzer

So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition? If so, then is this just a scales of justice sort of thing, where the good actions need not be related to the bad ones? Or would the good actions need to be related to "undoing" the bad actions or at least altering their trajectory so that they do not lead to the bad outcome?
What I am getting at is whether this Karma system is a scales of justice idea where good deeds pay off debts created by bad deeds, or if this is a trial and error sort of thing where you keep adjusting your path until you stop driving back around in a circle and hitting the same pot hole over and over again.

' So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition? '

The seeds of previous actions are planted if we don't water them they will wilter.



"According to the Buddhist doctrine of Karma, one is not always compelled by an ‘iron necessity’, for Karma is neither fate, nor predestination imposed upon us by some mysterious unknown power to which we must helplessly submit ourselves. It is one’s own doing reacting on oneself, and so one has the possibility to divert the course of one’s Karma to some extent. How far one diverts it depends on oneself. "

Is one bound to reap all that one has sown in just proportion?

The Buddha provides an answer:

"If anyone says that a man or woman must reap in this life according to his present deeds, in that case there is no religious life, nor is an opportunity afforded for the entire extinction of sorrow. But if anyone says that what a man or woman reaps in this and future lives accords with his or her deeds present and past, in that case there is a religious life, and an opportunity is afforded for the entire extinction of a sorrow." (Anguttara Nikaya)

Although it is stated in the Dhammapada that "not in the sky, nor in mid-ocean, or entering a mountain cave is found that place on earth where one may escape from (the consequences of) an evil deed", yet one is not bound to pay all the past arrears of one’s Karma. If such were the case emancipation would be impossibility. Eternal recurrence would be the unfortunate result.

Originally Posted by sky123

'
Although it is stated in the Dhammapada that "not in the sky, nor in mid-ocean, or entering a mountain cave is found that place on earth where one may escape from (the consequences of) an evil deed", .

I like this line. It's truth is all the more evident when one considers that all of the places mentioned, are within the one seeking to escape. Perhaps Karma just means we need to tidy up the place a bit, maybe hang some nice curtains and keep a pot of honey available in case someone stops by for a little bit of something.

Originally Posted by Gem

In Buddhist philosophy, 'kamma' refers to the volition. The volition is 'cause' and past volitions have created potentials which will manifest to conscious awareness when all the conditions come together. That's destiny and you can't do anything about that. The idea that good deeds wash out and prevent these manifestations is not consistent with Buddhist philosophy. Ill intent of the past is going to manifest in a bad way (just as it has always done), and when it does the person can continue the habit of reacting with aversion and craving more desirable experiences, and thus perpetuate misery, or cease reacting like that and accept it because it is true.



The meditation is to cease the volitions by coming to peace with the past and the destiny already created. To cease reacting to the manifesting circumstances with aversions and desires, and thereby be at peace with circumstances regardless of what they are, and thus undermine the wish for things to be otherwise, thereby bringing volition to an end and stopping kamma causes altogether. That equanimity of mind lets the old potentials manifest as they are wont to do (without resistance, avoidance or desirous, clingng reactivity) and you do not add any new potentials by generating kamma, and in this way the 'stockpile' starts to empty out in a process of purification.

Thx, makes good sense to me.

[Shaunc]

Originally Posted by ketzer

So then are you saying that through good actions, we can alter the trajectory of our Karma and those consequences (of our bad Karma) will no longer come to fruition? If so, then is this just a scales of justice sort of thing, where the good actions need not be related to the bad ones? Or would the good actions need to be related to "undoing" the bad actions or at least altering their trajectory so that they do not lead to the bad outcome?
What I am getting at is whether this Karma system is a scales of justice idea where good deeds pay off debts created by bad deeds, or if this is a trial and error sort of thing where you keep adjusting your path until you stop driving back around in a circle and hitting the same pot hole over and over again.

No, not like the scales of justice, more like the law of gravity. It doesn't matter if think it's fair or unfair, a good idea or a bad idea, it doesn't really matter if you believe in it or not. It's just best if you work within it's parameters.

Originally Posted by Shaunc

No, not like the scales of justice, more like the law of gravity. It doesn't matter if think it's fair or unfair, a good idea or a bad idea, it doesn't really matter if you believe in it or not. It's just best if you work within it's parameters.

I see, so perhaps I should try to orbit the pot hole instead of driving right into it.

[Shaunc]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I see, so perhaps I should try to orbit the pot hole instead of driving right into it.

To give an example. Last week I had the misfortune to put down our dog. Smokey was a 13 years old whippet and a much loved family pet and unfortunately was suffering from cancer.
There's a certain amount of bad karma involved in the taking of life, even though I never personally took his life (I paid a vet to do it ), there's also a certain amount of bad karma involved in letting an animal suffer needlessly. I picked what I thought was the lesser of two evils. However up until that fateful evening Smokey had enjoyed a good life. He was fed and exercised regularly and medicated when needed as well as wormed and checked for fleas and other parasites.
I'm hoping that treating him like that will bring some sort of good karma into my life and hopefully enough to outweigh the bad.
But my belief is that both lots of karma will turn up eventually.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

If the underlying motive to do good is to generate positive karma, the intent becomes self serving, does it not? Kind of saving up for a rainy day being the ego prompt. Of course the saving grace is that good is yet done.

On the other hand, pure loving intent simply acts without calculation or expectation of reward or even recognition.

***