Seeing 11 11 11 11?

Originally Posted by Astro

There is no such thing as "Twin Flames" outside of the romantic context! Spiritually the topic brings nothing but corruption to spiritual understanding.

You only have to have a good search on the meaning of 1111 online to find that there are mixed opinions about its meaning.

In my experience both the TF concept & the 1111 signs ought to be ignored & let go of. You only need to listen to your heart & soul for guidance, no external force should be giving it to you.

I tend to go along with this. 1111 can be interpreted in many ways. The problem is that spiritual newcomers who latch onto it as spiritually promotional will start looking for these signs and reinforce hopes rather than beliefs. Synchronicities don't have a causal relationship so they could be coincidence and lead to superstition. I've no gripe with superstition as long as one knows it for what it is.

Synchronicities involve signs whose meanings tie to the beholder as members have said here. This 1111 seems to have crept out of the culture dish!

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I tend to go along with this. 1111 can be interpreted in many ways. The problem is that spiritual newcomers who latch onto it as spiritually promotional will start looking for these signs and reinforce hopes rather than beliefs. Synchronicities don't have a causal relationship so they could be coincidence and lead to superstition. I've no gripe with superstition as long as one knows it for what it is.

Synchronicities involve signs whose meanings tie to the beholder as members have said here. This 1111 seems to have crept out of the culture dish!

Hey Lorelyen

How do you relate to Synchronicities? Do they inform, reinforce or guide you in some way?

I am curious.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Hey Lorelyen

How do you relate to Synchronicities? Do they inform, reinforce or guide you in some way?

I am curious.

Difficult, this one. Oh deary me you’ve put me on a spot again!

The short answer is “usually not.” LOL.

But the more measured is:

As I see it, what we interpret as reality is a myriad of signs that signify the concepts that we perceive as “reality”. Some are taught and/or recognised through consensus (like the colours of traffic lights) and we act based on knowledge and expectation though we might recollect experience if we’ve misinterpreted or ignored the sign in the past.

So aside from those and signs that have no meaning to a particular individual, we relate what we believe we see/hear etc to past experience to formulate reality. That lets us act on past causal relationships between things, like a heavy dark cloud can signify possible rain and things, because in some form or another the sign and signified occur in sequence often.

Sometimes people notice events that strike them as related though no apparent relationship exists. The synchronicities. The danger being that the absence of cause-effect can turn them into superstition.

What’s interesting about these “spiritual” synchronicities is how they work. It’s only recently that a splurge of numerical signification has appeared in popular spirituality along with (it seems) a penchant for everyone to own their personal, house-trained twin flame. So the sequence seems to be
…someone hears about twin flames (sign 1) and wants one.
…looks up the literature and discovers a sequence of 1s portends the arrival of a result. (It's usually presented as a received teaching.)
…the person looks out for any instance of 1111. The clock is a good victim! And on seeing it (sign 2)...
…the person expects to find their twin flame so they’re vulnerable to and searching out the 3rd sign – someone acknowledging them in a suitable context. Is that strictly a synchronicity?

Just one possible 'scene'. As opinion varies on what 1111 can mean it can be applied to any of the possibilities.

It could just be that in the system of things obscure causal relationships exist but I’d say that’s rare although a believer in determinism may argue otherwise.

Phew! Are you asleep yet? Sorry…..

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Difficult, this one. Oh deary me you’ve put me on a spot again!

The short answer is “usually not.” LOL.

Hey I love spots, stripes and all things bold and vibrant. So be bold and vibrant on the spot Lorelyen.

But the more measured is:

As I see it, what we interpret as reality is a myriad of signs that signify the concepts that we perceive as “reality”. Some are taught and/or recognised through consensus (like the colours of traffic lights) and we act based on knowledge and expectation though we might recollect experience if we’ve misinterpreted or ignored the sign in the past.

ok. That makes sense. So in some ways I am gathering by reading through your view here, that we can look anywhere in reality as we know reality to be in us (how we perceive it) and find any or all aspects of ourselves through the reflection and recognition of outer relationships in all life ?

So aside from those and signs that have no meaning to a particular individual, we relate what we believe we see/hear etc to past experience to formulate reality. That lets us act on past causal relationships between things, like a heavy dark cloud can signify possible rain and things, because in some form or another the sign and signified occur in sequence often.

So are you saying everything we are from the past to the present moment, is reflected in some way in the outer world. And we can break it down and sort through and find associations, that match our reality as we perceive it from within the whole host of our life/lives? I suspect it flows through more intensely according to our own points of noticing Lorelyen, would that be right? As in where we are focused from within at each given moment, bringing to us an outer relationship and association to match that inward reflected focus and view we are perceiving at that time?

Sometimes people notice events that strike them as related though no apparent relationship exists. The synchronicities. The danger being that the absence of cause-effect can turn them into superstition.

Can you expand on the danger part a bit more? And if people are noticing relationships where none exist, is that because they are not aware they are related in some way? Meaning the eyes can see it, but the reason for the association has not fully awakened as the one noticing? I mean I understand you don't have to know everything you see as a related connection, but it seems that sometimes we do investigate deeper our own connection to that event or person. And sometimes we don't have too, or choose not too. I guess this comes back to our own journey and process in this lifetime, that leads us to what we need for that process. Not the whole bang lot. Imagine if you were caught up in the vortex of the greater world around you seeing it all play out as an interconnected symbolic and synchronistic alignment more to your whole self? Oh wait I have had that happen. It near did my head in..lol. That was a crazy ride I tell you, but it did teach me a great deal about the interconnected world outside of me, matching the interconnected inner weave within me, as well as the oneness affair I was having at that time..

What’s interesting about these “spiritual” synchronicities is how they work. It’s only recently that a splurge of numerical signification has appeared in popular spirituality along with (it seems) a penchant for everyone to own their personal, house-trained twin flame. So the sequence seems to be
…someone hears about twin flames (sign 1) and wants one.
…looks up the literature and discovers a sequence of 1s portends the arrival of a result. (It's usually presented as a received teaching.)
…the person looks out for any instance of 1111. The clock is a good victim! And on seeing it (sign 2)...
…the person expects to find their twin flame so they’re vulnerable to and searching out the 3rd sign – someone acknowledging them in a suitable context. Is that strictly a synchronicity?

Yes investigation and connection plants a seed of discovery and association because one is very focused and wanting to bring to life that seed of potential as a valid path and focus, because they are yearning deeper for something that feels true and correct for them. So the signs lead the way further and that is exciting Lorelyen. It is kind of like the co creative connection, is signalled. "Yes this is real and true for me" I am going to follow the patterns and signs and know it is all true and correct as I perceive it can and will be. I think we can look for signs and make them happen as we can notice signs more spontaneously in the world around us, without too much effort involved. I think either way we choose to be served is simply becoming aware they are all there and we can choose how and what we see to match our own perceived idea of our world at any give moment and time of our life.

[dream jo]

i no yday
my wathch wen i tryd 2 chec tim i had
11.11.11 sec i did

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by dream jo

i no yday
my wathch wen i tryd 2 chec tim i had
11.11.11 sec i did

That's pretty special.
You got three elevens, not fair Jo..lol

[dream jo]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

That's pretty special.
You got three elevens, not fair Jo..lol

i no lol............................................... .........

Originally Posted by naturesflow

ok. That makes sense. So in some ways I am gathering by reading through your view here, that we can look anywhere in reality as we know reality to be in us (how we perceive it) and find any or all aspects of ourselves through the reflection and recognition of outer relationships in all life ?

Philosophically we may contain all physical reality potentially within us but in constructing the reality "out there" we rely on signs having meaning; hence a reliance on our experience (of them) so we can orientate in a situation when most have meaning. If we don't then we can’t relate with all that’s “without” Like if someone speaks in a language I don't understand (words signifying concepts) I can only construct a partial reality unless I shift focus to make the words irrelevant and rely on my knowledge/experience of other signs. I select a different set, wittingly or otherwise to make sense of the moment.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

So are you saying everything we are from the past to the present moment, is reflected in some way in the outer world. And we can break it down and sort through and find associations, that match our reality as we perceive it from within the whole host of our life/lives? I suspect it flows through more intensely according to our own points of noticing Lorelyen, would that be right? As in where we are focused from within at each given moment, bringing to us an outer relationship and association to match that inward reflected focus and view we are perceiving at that time?

I didn't intend it to be as complicated as that! I'm a simple person, 'onnist guv!
Trying to rephrase - we can only perceive reality if we've experienced at least some of the signs in our past to give us a frame of reference. Again it’s more complex because new signs (outside our experience) occur and our assimilation of their meaning can range from simple to complicated, depending on need and exploration involved. If it needs education it’s more complicated than, say, seeing a rare animal for the first time for which semantic hierarchy may inform one of all they need to know. Do I have to know it’s particular variety? Depends. Kids learn the meaning of new signs all the time. They ask and a meaning is given which they integrate with their experiences to date. Next time the sign has meaning. Doesn't mean that meaning is static as further experience builds on it and sets it at levels in a semantic hierarchy.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Can you expand on the danger part a bit more?

Only in how one regards superstition. If a causal link doesn't exist, one could be relying on illusiory belief. It could lead to various degrees of disappointment or danger. Say someone completely new from the Amazon comes to town and notices as they approach a pedestrian crossing the lights change in their favour and traffic stops – and they believe they caused the event. So next time… etc.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

And if people are noticing relationships where none exist, is that because they are not aware they are related in some way? Meaning the eyes can see it, but the reason for the association has not fully awakened as the one noticing? I mean I understand you don't have to know everything you see as a related connection, but it seems that sometimes we do investigate deeper our own connection to that event or person. And sometimes we don't have too, or choose not too. I guess this comes back to our own journey and process in this lifetime, that leads us to what we need for that process. Not the whole bang lot. Imagine if you were caught up in the vortex of the greater world around you seeing it all play out as an interconnected symbolic and synchronistic alignment more to your whole self? Oh wait I have had that happen. It near did my head in..lol. That was a crazy ride I tell you, but it did teach me a great deal about the interconnected world outside of me, matching the interconnected inner weave within me, as well as the oneness affair I was having at that time..

Like I said, a determinist would "know" there’s a connection somewhere (but it may be difficult to detect with our limited computing capacity). As a systems-inspired person I partially agree as everything is functionally related but the butterfly effect comes into it. Was it a butterfly taking off in Outer Mongolia that finally led to this topic being raised, or 1111? (An user of “infinity” would also make a few extravagant claims no doubt!)

Otherwise, yes, someone links events (or a sign and a signified) that APPARENTLY according to conventional physics has no causal relationship. So regardless of the esoterics (like, there might be a cause hidden away in the mists of whatever) they link the two – because of some predetermined formula of their own based on hopes or limited experience.

If I’m reading you right (LOL, probably not, but I’m doing my best… crikey, the bloomin’ coffee pot has run out!) you seem to be saying that it occurs in the absence of consideration and that if the observer were to look at a range of, if not all, possibilities, the link may be found invalid. I could say that the empty coffee pot is a sign that I should stop trying to get off the spot and refill it; get on with some work! But to imagine there’s a causal link would be naïve without questioning. There could just be but probably isn’t.

I was trying to see this from the semiotics angle - this room being about signs - the likelihood of synchronicities turning out to be illusory whereon some people will follow an illusion until their quest can be resolved - but with a risk of error. It isn't to say all synchronicity is illusory but the probability here seems high. People want something so they look out for any signs that mean it's going to happen.

I hope I’ve sprung a bit off that spot you put me on! If not, I’ll try to elaborate…. This is insomnia treatment for those for whom 1111 means romance! And I’m worried I’ll wear out the edit button now!

Pray have a nice sleep, dear naturesflow, and thank you for your response. Now for that coffee….

.

Originally Posted by dream jo

i no yday
my wathch wen i tryd 2 chec tim i had
11.11.11 sec i did

Ohh, dream jo.... my clock says that twice a day every day but alas, a twin flame never turns up. I have a bf whom I met one day around 3.30pm; he's good but no twin flame or soulmate.
Probably better that way as we have few expectations of each other. Over half a year there's never been a hint of an argument - a few questions and, maybe
once contention about replacing a piece of home-made cardboard furniture!

[Universal.Vibe]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

How do you relate to Synchronicities? Do they inform, reinforce or guide you in some way?

I am curious.

I know this question wasn't for me but I want to give my answer to the same question:

Syncs are a mass association game played on a subconscious level.
(that those who see them have become consciously aware of)
really no different than the procedure we use to understand the world around us normally.
c+a+t = cat (I don't know why that was the first thing I could think of,
its information and you can attempt to make sense of it and if you try you'll probably even make something of it, with practice)
as for me, I let them guide me as a bit of fun & entertainment just to see where it leads
but nothing serious I guess, sometime they can be handy but I find that they are to be taken with a grain of salt.