why are Buddhists so...

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Shaunc

That's correct. Siddart buddha, the historical buddha wasn't a Buddhist. He was a Hindu. The people that followed his teachings, the dharma, became known as Buddhists.

I'm just using my own homespun logic but when Gotama (the Buddha) became enlightened through his meditations, he taught what he'd learned, so I can't see myself thinking/believing that he was a Hindu - maybe he was born into the Hindu 'faith' but he taught what he learned through his own efforts. I think these factoids are sort of just semantics and don't hold anything beyond trivia and don't advance the importance of what he taught.

And btw, thanks Gem for your latest post - we really needed some clarity here.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddhism is based on the teachings of Siddhartha but he himself did not teach Buddhism.
What he taught is universal dhamma what we now call 'Buddha Dhamma '
Now before I get accused again of falsehoods there is no mention of Buddhist's in early documented teachings.

As I said to Shaunc, it isn't logical to say the Buddha did not teach Buddhism.
People followed him and his teachings in droves, from what I've read, so these arguments may not include any falsehoods, but I think they distract from far more important information about the Buddha and Buddhism.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Silver

As I said to Shaunc, it isn't logical to say the Buddha did not teach Buddhism.
People followed him and his teachings in droves, from what I've read, so these arguments may not include any falsehoods, but I think they distract from far more important information about the Buddha and Buddhism.

You are as entitled to your beliefs as much as we all are, it's interesting to see how others percieve things but I do expect my ' falsehoods ' to be explained but I am still waiting I don't think finding evidence from the Academics and Archeologist's is a distraction.

Shakyamuni was born into a Hindu Family but not Hinduism as a religion, everyone born in the area of the Indus were called Hindu's, Hinduism as we know it today didn't exist at the time of his birth. It is understood that he was a Brahmin as that was the main religion at the time, he didn't agree with all Vedic teachings ( pre-Bramanism but incorporated into it ) caste system etc: so he went his own way. His teachings are all based on ' Universal dharma '. If you look at Tantric Buddhism you can see how some Buddhist's merged Hindu gods and rituals together.
It's a melting pot of different beliefs and rituals and customs all mixed together to form what we now call Buddhism, soooooooo interesting.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by sky123

You are as entitled to your beliefs as much as we all are, it's interesting to see how others percieve things but I do expect my ' falsehoods ' to be explained but I am still waiting I don't think finding evidence from the Academics and Archeologist's is a distraction.

Shakyamuni was born into a Hindu Family but not Hinduism as a religion, everyone born in the area of the Indus were called Hindu's, Hinduism as we know it today didn't exist at the time of his birth. It is understood that he was a Brahmin as that was the main religion at the time, he didn't agree with all Vedic teachings ( pre-Bramanism but incorporated into it ) caste system etc: so he went his own way. His teachings are all based on ' Universal dharma '. If you look at Tantric Buddhism you can see how some Buddhist's merged Hindu gods and rituals together.
It's a melting pot of different beliefs and rituals and customs all mixed together to form what we now call Buddhism, soooooooo interesting.

Oh god, I am beside myself - I'd typed up a response, pressed Submit Reply and it popped up with 'server too busy' - argh!

That happened a lot yesterday and the day before. I'm not sure how to 'save' posts as they're being typed it's been so long since I had to do that.

Okay - I DO find all the information very interesting, sky. And I appreciate your sharing it with me. I love and appreciate the Buddha...and Buddhism as it seems to be generating more interest in the west in modern times. I appreciate what I've learned about meditation and mindfulness practices from it, because it helped me and continues to help me deal with the monkey mind and my emotions (especially since the loss of my only son).

In my previous attempt to respond started out saying that I get it. What you're trying to say and information - but Gem had made a rather important point about the competition to see who's more in the know - y'know.

I also said your ego seems to be getting in the way of allowing you to drop this demand for Jonesy to account for his unfortunate use of the word 'falsehood' when it WAS explained to you, from my viewpoint why he said that - I explained it and he not only didn't disagree, he confirmed that what I said was accurate. No need to flog a dead horse plus the OP commented that the thread was interesting and thanked all contributors.
It seems you're trying to intimidate a response from him that he's already given.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Silver

Oh god, I am beside myself - I'd typed up a response, pressed Submit Reply and it popped up with 'server too busy' - argh!

That happened a lot yesterday and the day before. I'm not sure how to 'save' posts as they're being typed it's been so long since I had to do that.

Okay - I DO find all the information very interesting, sky. And I appreciate your sharing it with me. I love and appreciate the Buddha...and Buddhism as it seems to be generating more interest in the west in modern times. I appreciate what I've learned about 8meditation and mindfulness practices from it, because it helped me and continues to help me deal with the monkey mind and my emotions (especially since the loss of my only son).

In my previous attempt to respond started out saying that I get it. What you're trying to say and information - but Gem had made a rather important point about the competition to see who's more in the know - y'know.

I also said your ego seems to be getting in the way of allowing you to drop this demand for Jonesy to account for his unfortunate use of the word 'falsehood' when it WAS explained to you, from my viewpoint why he said that - I explained it and he not only didn't disagree, he confirmed that what I said was accurate. No need to flog a dead horse plus the OP commented that the thread was interesting and thanked all contributors.
It seems you're trying to intimidate a response from him that he's already given.

Ok Silver....
I don't see debating as a competition to see who's right or wrong or who know's more than others. I have learned to look at things from a different angle through debating...
Regarding ' Falsehoods ', ego or no ego he has a habit of saying this but never explains what he means, you can never get him to point out these ' Falsehoods ' . He calls other liars which is not good.

It's lovely to hear that Buddhism has helped you deal with the pain you are suffering through your loss, I can't even begin to understand what you and your Family have gone through, in life there is Dukkha...

[Silver]

Originally Posted by sky123

Ok Silver....
I don't see debating as a competition to see who's right or wrong or who know's more than others. I have learned to look at things from a different angle through debating...
Regarding ' Falsehoods ', ego or no ego he has a habit of saying this but never explains what he means, you can never get him to point out these ' Falsehoods ' . He calls other liars which is not good.

It's lovely to hear that Buddhism has helped you deal with the pain you are suffering through your loss, I can't even begin to understand what you and your Family have gone through, in life there is Dukkha...

It happened again. I went to post and lost it!

de·bate1
/dəˈbāt/

noun
a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.
synonyms:
discussion, discourse, parley, dialogue, argument;* More

So, you see, argument is a synonym for debate. Nothing wrong with it, just like anything else - picking a good stopping point is what I'd consider 'right speech' and so on.

I don't follow anybody around the forum to read everything they write, so I don't know how true it is of your accusation that Jonesboy calls people liars - None of us on forums could ever 'perfectly' express ourselves, so sometimes - often we are misunderstood. Some feel a strong emotion to express, but it's often our emotions that trip us up in explaining ourselves well to others. When others become confrontational and aggressive, even the well-meaning shy away because that's not their style. I'm trying to understand why you're not at all accepting of my explanation, which he agreed with was spot on. Did you not understand it? You're seeming to try too hard.

[Shaunc]

I think that these type of discussions/arguments/debates are exactly what turns a lot of people off buddhism.
Our discussions should be about how to avoid suffering and achieve enlightenment, instead they often degenerate into a contest of who's got the biggest set of intellectual balls or my sect is better than yours.
One of the main reasons that I don't get involved in many Buddhist discussions is that I don't want to provide sources and proof for every statement I make or defend the choice I made with the tradition that I choose to follow.
A long time ago I decided that I'd rather be happy than right.

[Silver]

I think you're right, Shaunc.

Even though sky and I have had a back-n-forth on this thread, I don't try and ferret out anything more about a member beyond immediate interest in a given thread. I don't know if sky considers themselves to be Buddhist or Christian or whatever. If I didn't know better, I'd think they're trying to give Buddhism a black eye or it may be just a personal thing with the individual they're calling out. Who knows - who cares. But my curiosity has been piqued.

[sky]

'*If I didn't know better, I'd think they're trying to give Buddhism a black eye or it may be just a personal thing with the individual they're calling out. Who knows - who cares. But my curiosity has been piqued.'

If that's how you percieve it then that's ok As everything is not what it seems on the surface it's best to leave things.

[Silver]

[quote=sky123]'*If I didn't know better, I'd think they're trying to give Buddhism a black eye or it may be just a personal thing with the individual they're calling out. Who knows - who cares. But my curiosity has been piqued.'

If that's how you percieve it then that's ok As everything is not what it seems on the surface it's best to leave things.[/QUOTE]

Yes - too bad you didn't think of that sooner.