Exploring sights and sounds during meditation -- kosher or not?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The Buddha taught methods and even talked about meditation masters.

Your understanding of self realization and the Buddhas meaning is way different.

Never forget everything tradition in Buddhism is teacher based. Not do it your own way.

I must admit I used to get very lost in all the visions and other such things, it was kind of like a *inviting* trap to play around in that space. Observing myself move through the layers in myself in this way, showed me how easy it is to become distracted by this, rather than using the space as a source of focus/letting go, to go deeper into stillness and peace.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by catsnrabbits

Music or virtual worlds may manifest during meditation. Does Buddhism teach to pay no mind and move along or to explore and find significance?

No, Buddhism meditation is not exploring outside, but exploring inside you.
If you see Buddha, Kuan Yin, your friend, a spirit, a light, a hole, a very dark black dot, a door,.... what ever...., just aware that they appear in your meditation and back to method. If after back to method and you still see them, 'kill' it or say in polite in your heart "I want to meditate, please don't disturb me and go away".

No mind is a condition which is the result of another condition, and you can not create it. If you try to create it, it become an illusion and makes you feel that you already in no mind condition.
If a teacher, someone, or a book tells you to empty your mind, it means that when you meditate, don't think other things and bring your self to the present moment which is do meditation.
If you using visualization or listening to sound(water flows, water drop, soft music), its only to help you to get rid your thoughts/empty your mind and brings you to the present moment which is meditate. Not to involved into the visualization/sound it self.

What is your meditation method?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Ma anussavena.
* Do not believe something just because it has been passed along and retold for many generations. [Simpler: Do not be led by what you are told.]

Ma paramparaya.
* Do not believe something merely because it has become a traditional practice. [Do not be led by whatever has been handed down from past generations.]

Ma itikiraya.
* Do not believe something simply because it is well-known everywhere. [Do not be led by hearsay or common opinion.]

Ma Pitakasampadanena.
* Do not believe something just because it is cited in a text. [Do not be led by what the scriptures say]

Ma takkahetu.
* Do not believe something solely on the grounds of logical reasoning. [Do not be led by mere logic.]

Ma nayahetu.
* Do not believe something merely because it accords with your philosophy. [Do not be led by mere deduction or inference.]

Ma akaraparivitakkena.
* Do not believe something because it appeals to "common sense". [Do not be led by considering only outward appearance.]

Ma ditthinijjhanakkhantiya.
* Do not believe something just because you like the idea. [Do not be led by preconceived notions (and the theory reflected as an approval)]

Ma bhabbarupataya.
* Do not believe something because the speaker seems trustworthy. [Do not be led by what*seems*acceptable; do not be led by what some seeming believable one says.]

Ma samano no garu ti.
* Do not believe something thinking, "This is what our teacher says". [Do not be led by what your teacher tells you is so.]

Kalamas, when you yourselves directly know, "This is [these things are] unwholesome, this is blameworthy, this is condemned or censured by the wise, these things when accepted and practised lead to poverty and harm and suffering," then you should give them up.

Kalamas, when you yourselves directly know, "These things are wholesome, blameless, praised by the wise; when adopted and carried out they*lead to well-being, prosperity and happiness," then you should accept and practise them."

Gautama Buddha, Kesaputti Sutta, 5th sutta (sutra) in the Book of Threes (Mahavagga) in the*Gradual*

All of these are taken out of context. You should be ashamed of yourself.

It is like me saying. I am great. I am great at making a peanut butter sandwich.

All you are quoting is the first part and out of context.

Let's take this one because you used it yesterday in a different thread.

Kalamas, when you yourselves directly know, "This is [these things are] unwholesome, this is blameworthy, this is condemned or censured by the wise, these things when accepted and practised lead to poverty and harm and suffering," then you should give them up.

This is from the Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas and can be found here.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....065.than.html

This sutra is about people coming along preaching there own version of the truth.

The Buddha is saying test it and see that f you find truth in what they are saying. Are you finding them greedy of blaming others is also an indication of there depth.

At the end he talks about being a disciple of the Noble Ones and the benefits of being such a disciple.

To further make my point here is the last paragraph.

Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. We go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May the Blessed One remember us as lay followers who have gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."


Nothing in that sutra talks about going your own way.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

All of these are taken out of context. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why does one require to be ashamed when sharing?

Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace - Buddha

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

All of these are taken out of context. You should be ashamed of yourself.

It is like me saying. I am great. I am great at making a peanut butte,r sandwich.

All you are quoting is the first part and out of context.

Let's take this one because you used it yesterday in a different thread.



This is from the Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas and can be found here.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....065.than.html

This sutra is about people coming along preaching there own version of the truth.

The Buddha is saying test it and see that f you find truth in what they are saying. Are you finding them greedy of blaming others is also an indication of there depth.

At the end he talks about being a disciple of the Noble Ones and the benefits of being such a disciple.

To further make my point here is the last paragraph.

Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. We go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May the Blessed One remember us as lay followers who have gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."


Nothing in that sutra talks about going your own way.

Who said it's about going your own way ? It's all about SELF-REALIZATION.

The Buddha's Charter of Self Enquiry is also about SELF-REALIZATION, I'm sorry you don't understand because there is a lot of wisdom in these teachings.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Why does one require to be ashamed when sharing?

Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace - Buddha

If you are twisting a teaching and giving it a false meaning you should be ashamed. To true Buddhist that is a very scary thing to do. To spread false Dharma.

Here is the link where he posted that from http://oaks.nvg.org/kalama.html

I would encourage you to read the sutra so you have an understanding of the points being made.

It is pretty simple. The Buddha is saying test what I am saying, test my methods and teaching and see how they improve your life. He is not saying be a blind follower nor to just do your own thing.

If anything wouldn't it be respectful if you don't follow a tradition, a teacher or read the teaching to not post in a Buddhist thread that it is okay not to follow Buddhist teachers, traditions or teachings?

It is equivalent to going to the Christian section saying I don't go to church or follow the bible or Jesus and neither should you. Oh here are a bunch of out of context quotes to make my point.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Who said it's about going your own way ? It's all about SELF-REALIZATION.

The Buddha's Charter of Self Enquiry is also about SELF-REALIZATION, I'm sorry you don't understand because there is a lot of wisdom in these teachings.

The sutra was about how to achieve that by following his teachings. All your post have been telling people to do your own thing.

Completely different..

[sky]

Quote Jonesboy....'pretty simple. The Buddha is saying test what I am saying, test my methods and teaching and see how they improve your life. He is not saying be a blind follower nor to just do your own thing '


SELF REALIZATION, which I keep saying

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Quote Jonesboy....'pretty simple. The Buddha is saying test what I am saying, test my methods and teaching and see how they improve your life. He is not saying be a blind follower nor to just do your own thing '


SELF REALIZATION, which I keep saying

Just so we are clear. There is no such concept in Buddhism :)

Since Buddhism denies the existence of a separate self, as explicated in the teachings of anatman and sunyata, self-realization is a contradictio in terminis for Buddhism. Though the tathagatagarbha-teachings seem to teach the existence of a separate self, they point to the inherent possibility of attaining awakening, not to the existence of a separate self. The dharmadhatu-teachings make this even more clear: reality is an undivided whole; awakening is the realization of this whole.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-realization

Here instead is a link to Sutra on the Eight Realizations

By Thich Nhat Hanh

http://buddhasutra.com/files/eight_r...ions_sutra.htm

See the difference ?

[Jeremy Bong]

Hey all friends ,

I must have missed a lot here but I did some explanation of what you people may argue here and there. Please see my thread and come back to continue the fight . That may give you the direction to track at the right point.