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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #21  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:16 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Three kinds of desire.

There are three categories of Craving/Tanha in Buddhism, Kama tanha, Bhava tanha and Vibhava tanha, There not totally separate forms of desire but different aspects of it.



The Buddha once said: There are these three kinds of craving.


1: The Craving for Sensing...
2: The Craving for Becoming...
3: The Craving for Non-Becoming…
These are the three kinds of craving.
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  #22  
Old 12-02-2019, 04:27 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
It's an English translation of the Pali "cetana", but it has a range of contextual meanings, and I'm just using volition to mean the urge to make an experience other than it is.

What you say is true in one sense, but also we can say in another sense that the urge to make an experience other than it is, is at the heart of right practice. It defines the path or action that leads to enlightenment.

If the "experience" we are referring to is a consciousness recognizing it is not the "noise in the head," the ever running thought stream that creates conflicts, emotions, fear, hate and anger and all the rest, then the urge or volition or intent or "will" to make this experience something other than it is, is a good thing.

One can make an experience other than it is by dropping the desire to make it other than what it is (if that desire is present)

So the volition of a seeing aware consciousness can lead to liberation, the volition of a thought dominated consciousness can continue or increase the experience of conflict and duality.
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  #23  
Old 13-02-2019, 08:30 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
What you say is true in one sense, but also we can say in another sense that the urge to make an experience other than it is, is at the heart of right practice. It defines the path or action that leads to enlightenment.

If the "experience" we are referring to is a consciousness recognizing it is not the "noise in the head," the ever running thought stream that creates conflicts, emotions, fear, hate and anger and all the rest, then the urge or volition or intent or "will" to make this experience something other than it is, is a good thing.


That will set up an aversion/resistance paradigm. Mindfulness is objective and if you produce a lot of negativity, the meditation will make you conscious of it. When you know it only generates misery for you, there is no way you will consciously and willingly continue doing that.


At first you don't realise - as Christ put it, 'They know not what they do'. After you meditate for a while you realsie 'OMG, this is what I've been doing all this time'. Once seen, it can no longer pass you unawares. It will still come up as you are habitualised in such reactions, but you will catch it every time, like, 'Oh I'm doing that thing again'. You do not want misery, so you do not consciously and willingly continue to generate it. This is not the willful changing of anything. It is the cessation of it.


To illustrate this: you sit to meditate in the mindful fashion, and you proceed to 'body awareness'. As you feel through your body, you notice you have a tense muscle in your leg. You don't try to change it. You simply stop doing that tensing. The relaxation of it is not an effort to make it otherwise; it the cessation of volition that creates that tension.


As you move attention away to other parts of the body, you lose awareness of the leg, but when you come back to pay attention to the leg, you realise it has tensed up again. The tension still occurs because it's habitualised, but you keep noticing, 'oh there's that leg tension again', and each time you notice you cease doing that tensing. You are only tensing it because you know not what you do.


Quote:
One can make an experience other than it is by dropping the desire to make it other than what it is (if that desire is present)




Yes. In Taoism it is said, "Free from desire you see the mystery. Full of desire you see the manifestations".

If you are just aware and have no desire for 'something else', there's no volition. The awareness without 'tanha' is 'pure awareness' (which is relevant to the 'purification' I mentioned earlier).


The subtle issue with meditation is there is an intent to observe breath or observe body or observe mind or whatever, but there is no volition to make it other than it happens to be.



Change is inevitable, so you are aware, anica-anica.


Quote:
So the volition of a seeing aware consciousness can lead to liberation, the volition of a thought dominated consciousness can continue or increase the experience of conflict and duality.




Yes.



Intentional observation is another way of saying paying full attention, and you see it 'as it is. This is different to the will of volitionally making it 'as you want it to be'. It's a subtle difference, but also a big difference



These can't go together. You can't have volition and also no volition. You have to cease the volition 'as you want it to be' to see it 'as it is'. Yet there is deliberate intent to 'see it as is', but not a volition to stop the volition.
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  #24  
Old Today, 05:29 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Intentional observation is another way of saying paying full attention, and you see it 'as it is.

A better word than "see" is perhaps ..........???

There is no possible word there is there? All involve "me doing"..... a conceptual me.... me seeing..... me experiencing..... all of which are conceptual overlays...

a thought about whatever now is...if a thought is here, now is conceptual and not as it is.....

what is now? nothing and everything....it is this, all of this....

what is it if I don't make it about something else? if I don't create the content with mind, what is the content?

what am I if I am awake and not associating with mind? what is left?

breaking through that wall is rare, but it shows us our destiny if you get glimpses of it. the next step in our evolution
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