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  #21  
Old 17-07-2018, 05:29 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
You're welcome.

If anything, this just goes to expose the limits of my cognitive capacity. Others can understand it easily, but I cannot...however, if it is explained in a different way (as per the second video I shared), I can get it...using a much simpler explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE8s5CfOuNw

Maybe I have finally burned myself out mentally, trying to work out the laws of quantum superposition and entanglement.

I have learned through this whole experience, however...don't try thinking when your brain already hurts. lol

Through the guidance of my spiritual mentor, I realized that my cognitive capacity (Phi Beta Kappa, etc.) severely limited my ability to REALLY understand though I could intellectualize quite well and sound impressive.

For me at least, it was absolutely necessary to transcend the intellectual and the cognitive in order to pass through the metaphorical "cloud of unknowing" where, suddenly and wondrously, the revelations became clearer.

In addition, the practice of "conscious sleep", which I have done for years, facilitated an extraordinary understanding of that which was presented in the video you posted here.

Best wishes.

Aum Namah Shivay
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  #22  
Old 17-07-2018, 06:24 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Give me a math problem or listen to my sister's tangential way of story telling and you will see my eyes cross.
But, the fact that nothing i see with these eyes is real...or a particle
is also a wave...very easy for my abstract brain.


Still Waters...Brooklyn? hot today ? LOL!
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  #23  
Old 18-07-2018, 12:38 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Give me a math problem or listen to my sister's tangential way of story telling and you will see my eyes cross.
But, the fact that nothing i see with these eyes is real...or a particle
is also a wave...very easy for my abstract brain.


Still Waters...Brooklyn? hot today ? LOL!

Yes, Still Waters is in Brooklyn, New York (), and it's been very hot here with a high of almost 90 expected today. Fortunately, I can deal with heat reasonably well.

As for me, I was a Phi Beta Kappa in mathematics and computer science with a long career in computer software development, consulting, and marketing. However, in my spare time, I gave back to society by doing lots of volunteer work and actually got a Master's degree in clinical social work after which I worked for a few years as a caseworker/supervisor in Adult Protective Services and Child Preventive Services. It surprised the faculty that someone with a logical mathematical mind could get straight A's in the psychological intuitive processes associated with clinical work.

My spiritual mentor helped to knock me out of the exclusively cognitive, problem-solving approach to life and, eventually, to go past the metaphorical "cloud of unknowing" into the intuitive. It was very difficult initially to leave behind the intellectual and surrender to that which lies beyond. What made it happen was, of course, my teacher's direction but primarily because I discovered through direct experience that the pure intuition (of the Big Picture) was clearly more reliable than the logic on which I was previously dependent (and very proud). Faith transformed into confidence into trust and ultimately into surrender to that which lies beyond it all.

Having said that, "Still Waters" can still engage in intellectual discourse with the intellectuals to validate that there are no contradictions between my understanding of the Reality and science (wave/particle theory as you referenced in your post), psychology, metaphysical research, and traditional religions including what many consider to be the "miraculous". This "Journey without Distance" (ACIM terminology, as I am sure you will recognize based on your background) has truly been awesome and illuminating. Based on my experience with my spiritual mentor, Still Waters can also shake others in Zen-like fashion out of the intellectualism that can only take one so far. As the Sufi Master Pir Vilayat Khan once said, "The ego (and, by implication, the intellectual) is very important ..... until it is no longer needed".

P.S. If you have not read "The Message In Our Time" by Pir Vilayat Khan about his father, Hazrat Inayat Khan, you might want to explore it as it approaches spirituality from both the abstract and the logical/scientific. It's an interesting blend. I studied under Pir Vilayat Khan many years ago and it was an incredible experience even though he was not my primary spiritual guide.

http://www.omegapub.com/?page_id=180
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  #24  
Old 18-07-2018, 06:12 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Thank you, Still Waters and I shall check it out.

After the past few days, I am also aware that I have been spending too much time in my head and not enough time in my heart.

Perhaps there's a reason why stuff is flying over my head right now, because it's time I, myself, went into that whole "faith and surrender' bit again and after that I probably won't even be interested in Consciousness Mechanics anymore. lol
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  #25  
Old 18-07-2018, 07:40 PM
Dustin Dustin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
After the past few days, I am also aware that I have been spending too much time in my head and not enough time in my heart.

... Consciousness Mechanics....
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8
What you said reminded me of the scale of consciousness in the image. Intellect, scientific inquiry happens at levels of the 400s; the 500s are denoted by the heart; 600 and up enlightenment. going from 400 to 500 involves a transition of understanding, incorporating ? reason and logic, becoming open to considering outside ideas and trying to comprehend what allows people to put belief in differening opinions. at 600 duality is lost and in relation to thought the idea of the oppisites diminishes, being replaced by the thought of both ideas being equally correct within a frame of a grander thought.

also fyi from level 500 up is when a persons interaction with reality becomes noticeable; when your interaction with reality become noticeable then there is no question as to the "illusion" of reality; in the 700s and up interaction becomes so pronounced that the concept of Self is actualized.

anyway the imagine that I provided was made by Dr. David R. Hawkins, a psychologist who reached a point of enlightenment, most of his work is focused on talking about "the self and the Self". [I read something you wrote in a different thread about instead of making the statement "I AM" it would be better to say the Self Is; I thought that was a cool thought which I would agree with.]

If your curious about the scale/map of consciousnes as it relates to me, meaning my comprehsion of the subject, i currently exist some where in the 400s but I have existed at higher levels so who I am has been effected by such, as a person, even though I currently exist at a lower level I would say who I am in someone defined somewhere around 530. During a portion of my life i experienced things in the upper 500s and lower 600s; I've had mild to intense interactions with reality - conincodese, sycronistity, and direct manifest.
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  #26  
Old 19-07-2018, 01:21 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Thank you, Still Waters and I shall check it out.

After the past few days, I am also aware that I have been spending too much time in my head and not enough time in my heart.

Perhaps there's a reason why stuff is flying over my head right now, because it's time I, myself, went into that whole "faith and surrender' bit again and after that I probably won't even be interested in Consciousness Mechanics anymore. lol

I know the feeling as I too finally became aware "that I have been spending too much time in my head and not enough time in my heart (the core of one's being according to my understanding)".

It was initially difficult to change this tendency as I was so attached and impressed with my ego/intellect (pride ). Now, it has become natural and effortless to abide in the heart.

Good luck. I love your posts.
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2018, 05:55 AM
MaryUllman MaryUllman is offline
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Thanks for sharing.
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:46 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Now, I consider myself to be rather intelligent, but there's this one video that I have watched six times already and it totally does my head in every single time...and I am no closer to understanding it after six times than I was after the first time I saw it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWSu_EewZZI

I'm still stuck on how nothing is 'real' outside my mind when my senses say otherwise and also how many people can perceive the same thing if nothing really exists outside the mind.

As a spiritual person, I can understand how everything is connected at the atomic or sub-atomic level, but there are still distinctions between 'self' and 'other' and between 'subject' and 'object' and about existing and orienteering my position within space and time, when all of that is just a product of my mind...and I cannot explain to myself how that can possibly be....and lordy, how I have tried because I want to know...I want to feel this.

Whenever I watch this video, I'm forever going "I don't get it...I WANT to get it, but I just don't get it". lol

Now I am wondering if this is basically only me, or do others also struggle with wondering if things exist ONLY because we see them or they wouldn't exist otherwise?....nope, don't get it.

So, if there are simple explanations for this, I am all eyes.


well from the book of thomas I get that Jesus thought there is both an inside and an outside. I'm going with Jesus on this as he seems to be the only evolved person in the past to share even a little of what he knew outside his own 'clan'... besides I tried the alternative once and didn't like it lol!

anyway it seems to me that one way you can resolve the maya/illusory problem against the idea of a shared external reality, is to just note that people may be each of us painting the external reality the way we want to see it, so that we've lost sight of what is really there. Some of the paintings especially from stronger people might bleed over as well, I dunno. The idea is kinda like, if one considers the eyes to be movie PROJECTORS instead of receiving light like we've been taught. And you sorta get some say in the programming?

This isn't as far fetched as you might imagine, if you look around it is easy to find people extolling the benefits of believing in yourself or believing in your ability to change this or believing this or that other beneficial thing all with the idea of learning to make the local reality conform to whatever they want it to be. As opposed to trying to accept it for what it is?

On a side note I noticed at a very young age for example that I had a tendency to read what I wanted into for examples signs on buildings. I had to train myself to look at it and digest it then it would turn into something that seemed more real? But admittedly I'm no longer sure which of those two things was any more real than the other. Probably, both were red herrings... incidentally I still sorta have that problem today... with things seeming different depending on how I look at them. But then again I've also sorta got a heisenburg uncertainty principle thing going on at the gross level so who knows?

Anyway if it were true that there is an outside world, but we paint what is there the way we want to see it rather than seeing it how it is, that would allow for the 'shared' reality we all somehow want to believe in while at the same time allowing for the maya/illusory reality that some of us know it to be as well. Rather than saying EVERYTHING is outside or EVERYTHING is inside, it might be kind of a combination of the two?

This also explains the 'veil' references which I'm sure you've heard... movie projector would make a good veil in addition to its maya-generation duties... and it also gives a convenient explanation for how to do 'miracles', e.g. just grow strong enough and knowledgeable enough to change paintings in ways not available otherwise? Although Jury is still out as to whether THAT notion has any merit lol!

there is probably other stuff I'm forgetting but that gives the general idea...

well that is my 2c on this topic.
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2018, 04:09 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
well from the book of thomas I get that Jesus thought there is both an inside and an outside. I'm going with Jesus on this as he seems to be the only evolved person in the past to share even a little of what he knew outside his own 'clan'... besides I tried the alternative once and didn't like it lol!

anyway it seems to me that one way you can resolve the maya/illusory problem against the idea of a shared external reality, is to just note that people may be each of us painting the external reality the way we want to see it, so that we've lost sight of what is really there. Some of the paintings especially from stronger people might bleed over as well, I dunno. The idea is kinda like, if one considers the eyes to be movie PROJECTORS instead of receiving light like we've been taught. And you sorta get some say in the programming?

This isn't as far fetched as you might imagine, if you look around it is easy to find people extolling the benefits of believing in yourself or believing in your ability to change this or believing this or that other beneficial thing all with the idea of learning to make the local reality conform to whatever they want it to be. As opposed to trying to accept it for what it is?

On a side note I noticed at a very young age for example that I had a tendency to read what I wanted into for examples signs on buildings. I had to train myself to look at it and digest it then it would turn into something that seemed more real? But admittedly I'm no longer sure which of those two things was any more real than the other. Probably, both were red herrings... incidentally I still sorta have that problem today... with things seeming different depending on how I look at them. But then again I've also sorta got a heisenburg uncertainty principle thing going on at the gross level so who knows?

Anyway if it were true that there is an outside world, but we paint what is there the way we want to see it rather than seeing it how it is, that would allow for the 'shared' reality we all somehow want to believe in while at the same time allowing for the maya/illusory reality that some of us know it to be as well. Rather than saying EVERYTHING is outside or EVERYTHING is inside, it might be kind of a combination of the two?

This also explains the 'veil' references which I'm sure you've heard... movie projector would make a good veil in addition to its maya-generation duties... and it also gives a convenient explanation for how to do 'miracles', e.g. just grow strong enough and knowledgeable enough to change paintings in ways not available otherwise? Although Jury is still out as to whether THAT notion has any merit lol!

there is probably other stuff I'm forgetting but that gives the general idea...

well that is my 2c on this topic.
Thank you so much!

You have hit the nail on the head with regards to the whole problem I have with Maya versus a shared reality and the difference between "creating our own reality" versus accepting things how they are.

At the moment, it's easier for me not to think about it.
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  #30  
Old 15-10-2018, 06:05 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Please riddle me this, Batman, Batmen and Batgirls...

So, everybody is telling me that there is no separation...people are all the same...there is no difference between "I" and "you".

Why is it then, that no two individual or personal universes are ever the same? and some have absolutely NO mutual 'points of reference' at ALL - how does one reconcile that within non duality?

How does one reconcile that which makes one person happy, can make another person totally miserable?

How does one reconcile that individual and personal beliefs can shape an individual reality SO much that it seems totally incomprehensible and irreconcilable to another who does NOT share them? even right down to basic sensory perceptions?

For some, the differences between human vs human are even MORE distinct than "Human vs Dog" or "Human vs Tree" so wherefore IS that "non separation" and "connection'? because I have always had difficulty seeing it because I am not Neurotypical.
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