Do you think God has any control?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Tomma

I think enlightened people look at situations in a completely different way. They can see how everything is connected and has a purpose and is therefore not a problem but just a necessary part of an eternal chain of events. They don't label it a 'problem', it just is, and they just watch. And so they are not affected inside.

I am definitely not ' Enlightened ' but I can see that everything that happens is just ' cause and effect '. some of this comes from my actions so I try ( don't always succeed ) to be aware of what I do and say. Problems to me are hurdles I can try and jump over or just let them take their natural course, it depends on the situation involved. We don't always have control over things that occur in our lives but I think we do have control over how we deal with these things, I firmly believe you can change the way you look at things and the things you look at change..
Saying this I presume that there are some who become so overwhelmed by life and just cannot help themselves, mybe with Depression or some form of Mental Suffering, that has to be the time to ask for some Medical help, a little helping hand to ease their pain.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Honza

Even if God wanted to interfere and perhaps save us; do you think that He could? I see very little evidence that anybody or anyone actually has the strength to do anything much to help. Does God have control over the situation? Is anyone in command? Sometimes I truly doubt it.

Reality/life seems like a huge mass of semi-organised chaos. With no one in particular having any say on the matter.

Sometimes I feel as though God has lost the plot. Perhaps God is dying. It worries me.

The world, and this evolved organic situation is a result of a fall, as the scriptures indicate.

"Control"? The Almighty is apart from space/time, as well as ever present within it. His Word informs us of what will occur in the world.
How is that for control?

St. Peter wrote, "For we look towards a new heaven and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness."
Seems to me you are yearning for this too, Honza.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Honza

Maybe I am moaning for no valid reason...…

You are.

This is because life, no matter at what stage, not just in the present, moves through phases each one dependent upon the last. It's taken billions of years to get to where we now are and this motion will continue until whatever causes its end - if ever. Everything is in a continual state of change and all possibilities of changing to another state of being are without end.
This continual change isn't to be confused with evolution (or the theory of) but is a result of happenings passing on information at creative levels of potential. Somethings will turn out well and some things won't.

We are always in the midst of it all.

[SaturninePluto]

Honza,

I feel your sentiments. I too struggle with not only my own suffering but to sit by and watch those around me struggle.

Those of us whom are able to help do help where, when, and who we can. By we- I mean those human beings who strive to help out their fellow man and nothing more than that.

It is rare when out and about I see an act of kindness towards another from those capable very much so of such acts.

Rarer still are acts of kindness towards my own person, being. I could need a door held open with a box in my hand, and someone behind me would rather stand and complain it is taking me too long for their impatience to open it, all the while not lifting a finger themselves, but in another instance spot a stranger pay for another's purchase.

Does this type of thing leave me cold and jaded? Well I will still hold a door open for any other whether they even have anything in hand or not.

Well this must sound like I am "looking at this all wrong" in Sky's view, and that I am complaining? Unabated honesty, you know what? Yes I am complaining. I will complain about this? Why wouldn't I complain? Something angers me I am supposed to remain silent? I am verbally abused by my family all day, these are the people- those whom verbally harass me- whom tell me not to speak, to shut up, all day long. Not to make mention of my anger, and Never Ever to Holler!!!!

Look who's hollering!!!!!

Honza, I do not feel you are complaining. You've every right to your thoughts on a subject even if it does not particularly make you feel all smiles and sunshine, and guess what else? Not only do you have a right to your thoughts, you've a right to express them as well.

These are God given rights. It shouldn't bother you in the least if anyone else finds them to have a tone of complaint or if someone whomever even if it were one closer to you finds them whiny.

You have the right verily to have and express them none the less. This right God has given each of us respectively, and individually and there is no human nor vile demon on this planet ever that actually can take that away from you, or any other one of us.

We though are fortunate we live in a place that allows us this right, and does not take it upon themselves- government wise- to silence us quite in the same way- they do in other places.

That said my opinion on God helping us, or in control or not and such?

Well sky says if you want help help yourselves as if we all live in magic rainbow fairy land where each and every one of us has perfect total control over our circumstances.

That's fine to each their own- sounds the equivalent of suck it up buttercup, though if I think about it.

What gets me however, is people expect God to do all this work, and Sky's answer doesn't leave room for helping others?

What of those whom have circumstances that does not even allow them that? To, help themselves?

Well then what? Well by God I thought that is what we are here for isn't it? What do we do when we meet someone whom is in need of help but can not help themselves? We walk by then?

In my world I at least consider stopping to help them if I can. When I can I do. Simple. I don't wait for God.

If I waited for God to take responsibility I'd wait forever.

But do I blame God? No. You see that's why he put me here. To be of service to his people, when they are too weak to fight injustice alone.

And that is it in my view. Dealing with injustices.

And if I said I will not complain about them, or they don't make me angry?

I'd be a liar.

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi there, Honza!

I often only have time to post the OP without reading posts before me...so maybe this has been said...
this is what I understand:

No, God is not 'in control', per se.
Sure, nothing that exists would exist if not for Him...but, He has placed it all on Auto-pilot, with free will and
the power to manipulate matter and beyond.
God happens to be digesting my food at this moment...
Now, if i decide to only eat meat...that digestion gets pretty painful and stopped up!
Should He interfere ? I did it to myself? After years, it could turn into colon cancer...do I blame God? No.
Was He in control...no.


But, the Infinite Intelligence that He is.. had an automatic system.
Read about the sympatheic and the parasympathic nervous systems...
Ha, God and the subconscious...or us and the conscious mind at work!
Do you heal a cut consciously?

No, there is a silent System on autopilot.
So, yes, God is control of the basics..but we can throw a monkey wrench in at anytime!

I think of Him as a Landlord...He can not walk into your apartment unless invited, it's the law...tho, it is His property.
If you have broken a hinge in your apt....you did that ...can you ask him to send a repair man onto your rented property? Yes.
But, He was not in control of you breaking the hinge.
If you had not abused it it would have worked fine!


My take...

[StarTemple]

Originally Posted by Honza

Even if God wanted to interfere and perhaps save us; do you think that He could? I see very little evidence that anybody or anyone actually has the strength to do anything much to help. Does God have control over the situation? Is anyone in command? Sometimes I truly doubt it.

Reality/life seems like a huge mass of semi-organised chaos. With no one in particular having any say on the matter.

Sometimes I feel as though God has lost the plot. Perhaps God is dying. It worries me.

It is on purpose, he allows control to the evil for a season. Then He proves once and for all he is the only one in control; this is all for the education of the future human population of Earth which will include all humans who have not followed evil to the point of everlasting deposition.

The issue is one of the power not of might, but of sovereignty and a regard for a personal freewill; it has to be like this to see what side of the issue humans will arrive at on their own, first.

If God intervened now people could claim their own sovereignty is not of freewill basis, so we must live and learn the hard way first. The evil side is a coercion process based on deception and that actually ends up working in the human behalf because it is quite effective. Thus, a generous allowance will be given to those who have been fully fooled by this production in this cycle of the rule of genius evil.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Honza

When you are on a high the world seems wonderful. I know that. Enlightened people are on a permanent high. But it doesn't make problems go away.....you just aren't aware of them anymore.

However if you slip into the doldrums it is very difficult to get back up again. The balance between feeling good and feeling bad is a narrow one at times.

Trust me, I know the feeling.

Thank God He says of Himself. "I change not".

Salvation isn't dependant on our feelings. When we realize that, we can feel better.

[theophilus]

God is in complete control. He allows evil so that it will bring about good in the end. You can find an example of this in the book of Job. Job was righteous; Satan accused him of serving God just because God had blessed him. God allowed Satan to take away the good things in Job's life to demonstrate that this wasn't true.

While Job was undergoing his test he probably doubted many times that God was really in control but in the end he came to a better understanding of God and a closer relationship with him.

Then Job answered the Lord and said:

“I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
‘Hear, and I will speak;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
but now my eye sees you;
therefore I despise myself,
and repent in dust and ashes.”
Job 42:1-6 ESV

His relationship with God was such that he was able to intercede for his friends.

After the Lord had spoken these words to Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.” So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did what the Lord had told them, and the Lord accepted Job's prayer.
Job 42:7-9 ESV

He also restored to Job twice the wealth he had taken from him, but that was probably the least of the blessings.

Right now we are in the same position Job was in during his testing. It seems as if God isn't in control. It won't be until this life is over that we will see what God is doing.

[Molearner]

Who is to say that we cannot pick our own parents? "The Lord is my shepherd(Father), I shall not want". There is a funny thing about free will.....out of our free will we can choose to let God be in control......to be our Father. Can we arrive at the point of being able to say....."Not my will, but Thy will be done"?

God can be in control when we recognize His authority...…"Thou shall have no other Gods before thee". Free will is a blessing(If we choose correctly)…..it is a disaster if we make the wrong choice

[Rah nam]

In creation there is intent, not control.
Control comes from the minor players