Salvation.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Let me ask you something about this light, because language has made it difficult to express subtle difference in communication-- It is not a matter that I do not understand what you mean by this, as this is what I meant of the light--

But, there is something more to this light to me; and that if you would be so kind, as to explain how you know you are this light other than just being this light?

errr.. I am trying to find out something specific here, but that language might not allow me to ask you what I really want to know in this; there is something key, but that I only know my experience and not the form of others; and so it is worth asking..

Because there is something very different in my view than the nature of light as you suggest and I have seen long ago, but that being light alone was not what I was truly looking for-- As even though you do not think the light to be reasoning, that in my view its inherent shared meaning means it is justified in being treated in the manner you do--

That is if the light did not do as you speak, you would not be justified in saying that; so even if you are just describing your experience, that experience is through reason alone-- I am the light, I am through it all; and so that is why the light is what it is.. if it was not what it was in relation to everything else, you would not have reason to feel about it the way you do-- This to me is reasoning, because it is based on relationships to make it appear as it does--

However, that is not also fully the case, as there is something else to it-- Something so very important that the moment I say these things you would deny it because you know this-- But that very thing that you know, I would suggest is not the light alone, and I am wondering if you might see what I mean? and maybe tell me how this speaks to your own experience--

As you know..

I am this light because I can share it. Not only does one just share the he light but when you talk about form it is a realization one is not this form. One can be one with a tree, a heart another person or a divine being. Even more so it one can help another merge, become one with such beings.

That is just a little of what is possible when one has realized emptiness of self and the light.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Also I suppose it is quite specific that under Buddhism I fall into Vajrayana-- But I was taught by the Dakini's which spontaneously arose in me as I have never heard of such a practice, so my reference to official texts or such is limited-- But that I quite understand what is occurring, but the best I can point to for the moment on the topic is this--



http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...0Principle.htm

I am very familiar with dakinis and dakins not just in text.

How is your silence? Do you feel energy 24/7 flowing through you? Can you reside in that energy as thoughts and being? Beyond that is being that energy...

Beyond reasoning and the astral what transformation are you experiencing ?

How do you know the being that visits you is a dakini? Would you like me to check on the level of being that is visiting you?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

Doesn't this presuppose that reproduction or even the desire for reproduction is a mistake then? And which human being created the process of reproduction?

Indeed. It places sex at the centre of degeneracy, ans in Christian belief sin is inherent and in Buddhist beliefs re-birth is suffering. The Adam and Eve representations particularly signify this with the placement of the fig leaf.

It also presupposes that human kind was a mistake, and if that is so then that which created human kind and the passions by which human kind continues its kind must also be a mistake or "the" original sin. Yet not one human being that I know of created them self, nor desire, nor passion, nor the processes of creation, thus humans are compelled by forces outside of their own doing, hence they cannot be guilty of any original sin, as they did not originate themselves. So, to put the burden of emancipation from this trap of culture reproduction on that which did not imprison itself in the first place seems a bit absurd. This is like blaming horses for their ability to run, or the bee for its potential to sting.

I think the real point is, if the original sin in genesis wasn't there, the salvation story in revelations wouldn't stack up. In Buddhism, it's very much about taking on new bodies, salvation as it were, being a release from re-birth cycles.

As I see it, the way of creation is not a mistake, rather seeing it as a mistake and trying to usurp it with one's own limited psychological hubris notions, which then generate absurd dogmas/doctrines/rituals/repressions/denying/resistances of the way of nature etc. is a mistake as these are in opposition to nature, to life and to ones own self. In other words, how arrogant does a human being have to be to think it knows what's best for humanity?

And I am not aiming this at you Gem, I just used your post as a catalyst, as this theme has been weighing heavy on my heart for quite some time.

When interests me is how in western culture this how gender is positioned. I religious thought, the devil used Eve to get to Adam. This positions Woman as the weaker sex, more easily tempted into evil, and makes her the figure which most irresistible to Man. She is the tempted and the temptress. The devil knows to tempt the woman, for man can't tempted by him, so that her irresistible beauty will weaken the Man's resolve. In the secular school, which stems from Greek philosophy, the first (human) woman, Pandora, was created by Zeus (well, Zeus commanded it, at least), as a ruse to weaken Epimetheus (to me, Epimetheus seems to relate to 'epistemology' which links to the 'tree of knowledge'). The legend explains how Zeus gave Pandora a jar as her wedding gift but forbade her from opening it, but he also knew she would be compelled by temptation to do just that, and as we know, she did, thereby unleashing all manner of evil and suffering that would forevermore plague mankind.

This means that woman as the easily tempted temptress was established in both Religious and Secular thought, and the bizarre outcome is, Her incredible beauty is also something monstrous. We see all the signs in culture. Apart from the obvious use of veils to cover that beautiful/unbearable face, in the liberal West, even covering the face with make up presents the face of beauty to cover the truly monstrous. There are several stories such as Samson and Delilah that position women as a 'devils voice', so to speak, which reiterate and affirm this rather perverse cultural paradigm.

Ok I'm going off track, but since salvation is saviour from some kind of spiritually degenerate state (and of course you didn't direct it at me, as I had nothing to do with making up these stories), and sex is not required for an individual's survival and only serves the species' continuation, we are trapped in this conundrum where we have to 'succumb' to the passions of the flesh for the sake of the continuation of humanity, and as an obligation to our cultural societies, but sex is also pivotal to the issue of an individual's temptation away from God.

So yea... 'salvation' clearly is rooted (scuze pun) in sexuality, and this is so obviously signified by the holy tradition of celibacy.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Let me ask you something about this light, because language has made it difficult to express subtle difference in communication-- It is not a matter that I do not understand what you mean by this, as this is what I meant of the light--

But, there is something more to this light to me; and that if you would be so kind, as to explain how you know you are this light other than just being this light?

errr.. I am trying to find out something specific here, but that language might not allow me to ask you what I really want to know in this; there is something key, but that I only know my experience and not the form of others; and so it is worth asking..

Because there is something very different in my view than the nature of light as you suggest and I have seen long ago, but that being light alone was not what I was truly looking for-- As even though you do not think the light to be reasoning, that in my view its inherent shared meaning means it is justified in being treated in the manner you do--

That is if the light did not do as you speak, you would not be justified in saying that; so even if you are just describing your experience, that experience is through reason alone-- I am the light, I am through it all; and so that is why the light is what it is.. if it was not what it was in relation to everything else, you would not have reason to feel about it the way you do-- This to me is reasoning, because it is based on relationships to make it appear as it does--

However, that is not also fully the case, as there is something else to it-- Something so very important that the moment I say these things you would deny it because you know this-- But that very thing that you know, I would suggest is not the light alone, and I am wondering if you might see what I mean? and maybe tell me how this speaks to your own experience--

I respond to what you asked me before and you asked Jonesboy again about the light. Just put aside about what your bad behavior towards me that harm to my nature and self by your greedy.

Now I know what you asked me about of the knowing of the light and I said the light is nothing. I mean even you are the light or of the light of Tibetan light that I said in other thread. Light in a form of Tibetan energy underground of the mountain is only of that nature and to me is only a strong light that is nutritional to spirit.

And they are many more types of different light around the universe. Just say the sun and I have saw the Goddess of the sun and she is from the light of the sun much stronger than any light and more wise than any divine God.

And for the nature of light we(me and my cupid sons) are the true light as we can transform us (my spirit) to light or energy which is much can represent as an intelligence and kindness. Not too containing with egoism, selfishness and greed.

They are a lot of light energy in the universe that have formed Goddesses. Buddha's mother is one of the Goddess forming by the nature of the light energy in the universe. And there are many others, one more it's the lighting created God or himself as the lighting who has very high energy and power. But he is with much empathy and good.

Almost all the creation of/by the creator is thinking that they are the greatest but the exact nature is part of or smaller fraction or minor fraction of light energy only.

The one who you pointing is the Tibetan light which is influenced by the green lizard that I have eliminated one year ago. I have felt the light in the mountain. It's not much than other and not much compare to my energy. It's because you as a light formation you not be able to perform high dharma techniques. And I have more than 100,000 types of high dharma.

You are young and never in your evolved mind or evolution has high dharma and only stuck in reincarnation as your highest dharma. If you are Dalai Lama but your ability is knowlege and indulgent of reincarnation. Anymore that can stand strong in this world? I doubt about it.

So my advice is make good use of the grace that you possess but not spoiled by your own "wisdom"......

[firstandlast]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I am very familiar with dakinis and dakins not just in text.

How is your silence? Do you feel energy 24/7 flowing through you? Can you reside in that energy as thoughts and being? Beyond that is being that energy...

Beyond reasoning and the astral what transformation are you experiencing ?

How do you know the being that visits you is a dakini? Would you like me to check on the level of being that is visiting you?

My vision is beyond energy, I am experiencing basically what everyone else is experiencing.

You can check to see what level of being is visiting me, but as it has so far been confirmed, there is no being with me. This however might have changed recently, idk, form might have been taken. But if it is as before, you should find no other with me.

[firstandlast]

Also as for my own level, my third eye is just opening and has been kept closed until the proper preparations were in place. But now I see the many kingdoms of God spread out on earth. Tis all here.

Like I am not even moving. Everything moves through me and eternity is clear. And I am grounded in the groundless; but that I haven't seen another who says the same thing and means it to the same degree.

Like imagine a lucid dream, and that this is how I am starting to truly see the world; and that I can finally begin to deal with the spirits in front of me I assumed not to be sentient.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

My vision is beyond energy, I am experiencing basically what everyone else is experiencing.

You can check to see what level of being is visiting me, but as it has so far been confirmed, there is no being with me. This however might have changed recently, idk, form might have been taken. But if it is as before, you should find no other with me.

What is it everyone else is feeling?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by firstandlast

Also as for my own level, my third eye is just opening and has been kept closed until the proper preparations were in place. But now I see the many kingdoms of God spread out on earth. Tis all here.

Like I am not even moving. Everything moves through me and eternity is clear. And I am grounded in the groundless; but that I haven't seen another who says the same thing and means it to the same degree.

Like imagine a lucid dream, and that this is how I am starting to truly see the world; and that I can finally begin to deal with the spirits in front of me I assumed not to be sentient.

You mean something like this?

Thanks jonesboy

I had intense dark night series of experiences during the last month. I had delusions of living in a simulation, being God or the author of the simulation, feeling etheric vibrations (not usual acoustic ones, but more like ripples in 3D space), meeting beings that look like humans, but are "aliens", attending (symbolically) my own funeral, seeing streets in my city getting empty and more. Scary as hell sometimes, but now it all seems to be a harmless fabrication of ungrounded mind. Lesson here for me is (I suppose): don't ignore warnings and self pace . Things can get out of hand easily - I now know this from personal experience.

Also, there's a permament change to my eyes. When standing in front of a mirror and looking into my cornea, I see my reflection. I can see my reflection in other people eyes too

PS
I start to feel chakras vibrations during my meditations. Does that mean they are "open"?

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

As you know..

I am this light because I can share it. Not only does one just share the he light but when you talk about form it is a realization one is not this form. One can be one with a tree, a heart another person or a divine being. Even more so it one can help another merge, become one with such beings.

That is just a little of what is possible when one has realized emptiness of self and the light.

That's only your consciousness you sent out from you not the emptiness of you. Your emptiness is another "thing". You can't transform yourself into another form that's so far none of the God in heaven can. If you said you can becoming other person or a tree but not to another form.

That's the only dharma that in a way to take control on other. It's a way to bewitch other and many others Gods know many ways to do that types of work.

As you said about you are the light is only you think that you are the light but you're not. That light you comsum just as a tool but not as you because are not the light. If the light is from the sun you are not the sun.

That's what I said last time the god behind can divide his consciousness into thousand of brick form of energy and controlling others.

Edit: none can perform as stated as the monkey king in the story of the JOURNEY TO THE WEST. It's just a story not in the real spiritual world.

[firstandlast]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You mean something like this?

Thanks jonesboy

I had intense dark night series of experiences during the last month. I had delusions of living in a simulation, being God or the author of the simulation, feeling etheric vibrations (not usual acoustic ones, but more like ripples in 3D space), meeting beings that look like humans, but are "aliens", attending (symbolically) my own funeral, seeing streets in my city getting empty and more. Scary as hell sometimes, but now it all seems to be a harmless fabrication of ungrounded mind. Lesson here for me is (I suppose): don't ignore warnings and self pace . Things can get out of hand easily - I now know this from personal experience.

Also, there's a permament change to my eyes. When standing in front of a mirror and looking into my cornea, I see my reflection. I can see my reflection in other people eyes too

PS
I start to feel chakras vibrations during my meditations. Does that mean they are "open"?

When we begin allowing our thoughts to move in new ways, because soon some may realize that thoughts as we use them and as they occur are different that supposed-- But everything you spoke of was grounded, else it could not come into any form; and because it had form it arrived from some ground; else you could not speak of it--

4-5 years ago I dealt with all those issues; it seems to occur at 4th and 5th initiation when Buddhahood is reached, but not yet incarnated; because these two paths diverge, as you can either move onto nirvana as a "permanent" state, or that you can incarnate the higher knowledge into the lower intellect (which is what I am doing, expanding from my single pointed view)--

It is not a question of whether or not such things were true or false, because than you are dealing with the conceptual mind without going further to see what you are dealing with as the forces of nature-- That is, why would such things arise? look around how madness tends to get people, and how much new age alien stuff is being generated-- Why is such a thing even taking form in the first place?

In order to start working in the higher dimensions one needs a living mythology.. Many people dealing with aliens, think in terms of stars and such; they think materially, but the words refer to the force of their own emergence within the view upheld-- So that we begin seeing things with a new mythological map in order to navigate the living being as it is, instead of how we think it is-- But in order to do that, the religions that established an order in harmony with certain subtle forces which have finished their mission, and that we are seeing the new mythology arrive in order to help us relate to our greater selves as we appear separate--

This is really important for us to have sort of foundation to be able to relate to the greater community which is in a sense quarantined from us, but at the same time completely a part of our own existence--