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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #31  
Old 27-08-2020, 03:22 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Are you sure about it being efficient? You gotta eat loads of plants to get your protein requirements. Have you done the math? Protein from plants are less useable by our body, so a can of beans (often around 20g of protein) will be less effective than a small chicken fillet (of 20g of protein) or two eggs.

I suspect these athletes/body builders build their body on animal food and then went vegan for commercial purposes.

Meat isn't a 'perfect' protein. It's a complete protein meaning it is comprised of all the amino acids that make up a protein. Plants all contain varieties of amino acids that when combined, create a complete protein. Rice and beans for example, equals a complete protein. Whole wheat bread and peanut butter equals a complete protein in another example. Broccoli, spinach, blueberries, apples and oranges plus everything else results in your body having adequate protein in combinations with one another plus the beans and rice, grains and legumes.

Your body has the amazing capacity to 'combine' amino acids from the spectrum of plant foods that are available to us and thus provide all the protein that you require. As I said previously, my blood tests showed that my protein levels were just where they should be and I've never made too much of an issue in planning 'perfect combinations'. I just let the system (my body) take care of the amino acid combining automatically. Just as gorilla's do, elephants, cows, etc. Our bodies are amazing machines.
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  #32  
Old 27-08-2020, 03:40 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
Just what in the world are you trying to communicate Debrah?
We're homo sapiens, not any of the other species. Our ancestors evolved as meat eaters.

I don't need to do any challenge without tools, and neither does a vegan. The meaning behind the 'challenge' was to make you think about the wilderness and how humans survive. We make tools, weapons, fire. We hunt and we cook. We do not have to do it like lions, which is the fallacy that vegans always bring forth. We evolved to catch and kill prey. If you argue against it because we need tools and weapons than you can't farm either and that means no more vegan diet for you. Without civilization you can try and live like (or with) the gorillas but you'll make a poor gorilla.

We learned to eat meat and hunt.

It should be noted that neither of the links offered are 'vegan sites'. One is PubMed and the other is the Smithsonian Institute.

So with human(oids) appearing on the savannah's of Africa around 4 million years ago, fossil records indicate that earliest evidence of meat eating began around 2.5 million years ago and with bonobo's and gorilla's being our closest living relatives and them being frugivorous in eating habits, it's pretty clear that we initially evolved as plant eaters and subsequently added meat eating to our diets. And followed that up with learning to cook that meat between 1.5 million years and 800,000 years ago.
*********

'The earliest evidence for meat-eating in hominins dates to ~2.5 Mya (million years ago) (35). Some of the fossil findings are consistent with scavenging activities, but on the whole, there is still considerable uncertainty about the relative importance and timing of scavenging versus hunting in hominin evolution (17, 36, 136, 146). .................... The adoption of large-scale meat-eating may have necessitated advanced processing techniques, such as cooking (see below), in part because raw meat is difficult and slow to chew, thus limiting consumption in large quantities (173).

Cooking

The oldest incontrovertible evidence for human-controlled fire dates to 800,000 years ago in Israel (59). There are other, less certain, sites dating to as early as ~1.5 million years ago (18, 165). Wrangham and colleagues (175) suggest that cooking food may have been part of hominin culture as early as ~1.9 million years ago,' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4163920/

'One of the earliest defining human traits, bipedalism -- the ability to walk on two legs -- evolved over 4 million years ago. ..............

Humans are primates. Physical and genetic similarities show that the modern human species, Homo sapiens, has a very close relationship to another group of primate species, the apes. Humans and the great apes (large apes) of Africa -- chimpanzees (including bonobos, or so-called “pygmy chimpanzees”) and gorillas -- share a common ancestor that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago.

Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa........https://humanorigins.si.edu/educatio...uman-evolution
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  #33  
Old 27-08-2020, 06:31 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Debrah
You're still inferring that Nimai Delgado is a liar because it suits your perspective. Unless you have proof, I suggest that it's an injustice to start rumours.




I'm merely saying there's no reason to believe him, and a physique such as that is only achievable with drug use, or freakishly good genetitics... maybe both. This merely indicates that I don't believe everything people say, but it's possible he is telling the truth about drug use, or perhaps not.. and frankly, to assert I'm calling him a liar is inane.
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  #34  
Old 27-08-2020, 06:42 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
Are you sure about it being efficient? You gotta eat loads of plants to get your protein requirements. Have you done the math? Protein from plants are less useable by our body, so a can of beans (often around 20g of protein) will be less effective than a small chicken fillet (of 20g of protein) or two eggs.

I suspect these athletes/body builders build their body on animal food and then went vegan for commercial purposes.




Vege and vegan physique and strength athletes typically use a plant based protein supplement to top up shortfalls in protein from food, and animal products are not required for reaching individual genetic potential for muscle accrual. However, it is true that most of such athletes were not always vegans, and most of them will return to eating animal products after a while.
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  #35  
Old 27-08-2020, 07:00 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Not sure what you're arguing about Debrah. You're stating a couple of known, obvious things, as am I. If you do the calculations, you'll find it much harder to get, say 80g of protein a day, form eating plants compared to eating eggs/dairy/meat. That's just a fact. And one could do the experiment, in combination with strength training. Try a month only on plants, and try a month including animal foods. It makes a huge difference.
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  #36  
Old 29-08-2020, 12:03 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Debrah
You're still inferring that Nimai Delgado is a liar because it suits your perspective. Unless you have proof, I suggest that it's an injustice to start rumours.




I have a perspective form inside the muscle universe, so call it an educated perspective. I don't have biased views on meat or veganism. I know what nutrient profile is optimal for muscle accrual and/or athletic performance, and those nutrients can be obtained by vegans easily enough, albeit somewhat more difficult.



I have simply outlined the reasons to suspect old mate might not be being truthful about drug use, and they are very good reasons. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet he's gone on a few stacks in his time - but I might be wrong - I could lose that bet. However, if I bet against every athlete with that sort of physique (and competes in untested bodybuilding shows) who makes those claims, I'd win 99% of the time. Hence the conclusion that he is not being honest, or he's a freakish genetic outlier, or both. Besides, even if he isn't telling the truth about his drug use, I wouldn't call him a liar.
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  #37  
Old 22-02-2021, 10:52 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I have a perspective form inside the muscle universe, so call it an educated perspective. I don't have biased views on meat or veganism. I know what nutrient profile is optimal for muscle accrual and/or athletic performance, and those nutrients can be obtained by vegans easily enough, albeit somewhat more difficult.



I have simply outlined the reasons to suspect old mate might not be being truthful about drug use, and they are very good reasons. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet he's gone on a few stacks in his time - but I might be wrong - I could lose that bet. However, if I bet against every athlete with that sort of physique (and competes in untested bodybuilding shows) who makes those claims, I'd win 99% of the time. Hence the conclusion that he is not being honest, or he's a freakish genetic outlier, or both. Besides, even if he isn't telling the truth about his drug use, I wouldn't call him a liar.

Except you have by inference. Not cool. And I think it's kind of unfair to assume automatically because of your preconceived notions that when someone says XYZ, they must be lying because it doesn't fit your experience. For one thing, it certainly fosters a considerable degree of cynicism or would if we all operated like that. I tend to accept a person's word until there is proof otherwise.
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  #38  
Old 22-02-2021, 12:09 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Debrah
Except you have by inference. Not cool. And I think it's kind of unfair to assume automatically because of your preconceived notions that when someone says XYZ, they must be lying because it doesn't fit your experience. For one thing, it certainly fosters a considerable degree of cynicism or would if we all operated like that. I tend to accept a person's word until there is proof otherwise.




It's pretty simple really, he either has extraordinary genetics for building muscle, which is possible, or he has used steroids, or maybe both. It's possible he hasn't used steriods and it is possible he's lying. If the former is true he is a genetically anomaly statistically, and if the latter is true, that's statistically more probable but not necessarily the case. I don't see why we should just take people at their word when we know that people lie quite a lot... and steroid use is often lied about.
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  #39  
Old 22-02-2021, 08:40 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
......... I don't see why we should just take people at their word when we know that people lie quite a lot... and steroid use is often lied about.

Must be a strain then for you to get through life assuming that everyone you speak to is probably/maybe/likely lying to you. You have my sympathy.
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  #40  
Old 23-02-2021, 02:08 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Debrah
Must be a strain then for you to get through life assuming that everyone you speak to is probably/maybe/likely lying to you. You have my sympathy.




People aren't always honest, and everyone lies sometimes, so there is no reason to think that everyone tells the truth. I'm pretty sure near enough everyone gets that.
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