The meaning of the crucifixion

[Baile]

Originally Posted by markings

how it is an error to base one's self-esteem oh the mental ego-self.

IMO any religious or spiritual rhetoric that speaks of "error," is preaching a toxic version of truth. It's already heading in a direction that isn't healthy; belief-ideas that promote a hardened and negative perspective. I've noticed that this topic in particular -- the ego -- is one that elicits an awful lot of this sort of fanatical, fundamentalist-type rhetoric. "Killing" the ego is one example: it's as extreme and pointed a concept, as the Christian belief that we're all sinners and are going to hell if we don't straighten up. Both are examples wherein the mind creates the illusion (delusion) there is something fundamentally wrong, sick and diseased with the human condition: something that must be fixed at all costs; aspects of human life and human behavior that must be terminated with extreme prejudice.

That's fanaticism, that's all it is. It is certainly not loving truth. There is very little good in hard, harsh belief-rhetoric of this kind. It is ultimately destructive, and not productive. It can create psychic disturbance and spiritual sickness in people; I know that from the cult I was in for two decades.

[sky]

Originally Posted by markings

Well, then let's leave aside a whole body of knowledge and not so recent realizations in psychology which are about the importance of the body-self and how it is an error to base one's self-esteem oh the mental ego-self.

A Tibetan Lama says that unlike Western people Eastern one's have far less self-esteem issues, and he attributes it to what I wrote above. Body self versus mental self.

Low self esteem is caused by being addicted to approval, Buddhist would not seek approval in the way that Westerns do because that leads to vanity and so on......

[Baile]

Originally Posted by sky123

Low self esteem is caused by being addicted to approval, Buddhist would not seek approval in the way that Westerns do because that leads to vanity and so on......

Yes good point: western guilt consciousness as a leftover remnant of Pisces Age religious beliefs, specifically in a judging, punishing God and universe. IMO it's one of the more subliminal and insidious aspects of religion and cult belief. So much so that many people on a modern spiritual path aren't even aware they're still in essence locked into religious, flagellation-style beliefs that causes them to think they must "do it right" or risk spiritual failure.

There are no spiritual laws demanding we kill the ego. The ego is simply one aspect of being human. The path rather is a loving, gentle, meditative one: learning conscious control of one's mental, emotional and will life. Control of one's ego impulses in other words. And to get there, you first have to learn to love and accept the ego, for what it is.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes good point: western guilt consciousness as a leftover remnant of Pisces Age religious beliefs, specifically in a judging, punishing God and universe. IMO it's one of the more subliminal and insidious aspects of religion and cult belief. So much so that many people on a modern spiritual path aren't even aware they're still in essence locked into religious, flagellation-style beliefs that causes them to think they must "do it right" or risk spiritual failure.

There are no spiritual laws demanding we kill the ego. The ego is simply one aspect of being human. The path rather is a loving, gentle, meditative one: learning conscious control of one's mental, emotional and will life. Control of one's ego impulses in other words. And to get there, you first have to learn to love and accept the ego, for what it is.

It's strange how people come to the conclusion that Buddhism teaches to ' kill the ego ' when this word doesn't exist in Tibetan language, from my understanding the nearest interpretation to it refers to pride, and makes more sense.

We should use ego/pride skilfully and not allow it to use us. Keep a tight reign on it so you are in control not vice versa, like you said.... put it to bed sometimes. when it's getting out of control, like some do with their children.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by sky123

put it to bed sometimes. when it's getting out of control, like some do with their children.

Ha, that's a good one. Nice. And a reason why I never had kids.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes good point: western guilt consciousness as a leftover remnant of Pisces Age religious beliefs, specifically in a judging, punishing God and universe. IMO it's one of the more subliminal and insidious aspects of religion and cult belief. So much so that many people on a modern spiritual path aren't even aware they're still in essence locked into religious, flagellation-style beliefs that causes them to think they must "do it right" or risk spiritual failure.

There are no spiritual laws demanding we kill the ego. The ego is simply one aspect of being human. The path rather is a loving, gentle, meditative one: learning conscious control of one's mental, emotional and will life. Control of one's ego impulses in other words. And to get there, you first have to learn to love and accept the ego, for what it is.

Hubert Benoit would call this just more monkey training.
Training, greater control. Essentially believing that some time in the future we will be alright, if only we put in enough effort.

How about letting go of control, and asserting that "I am OK". You may not like me but that will sort itself out and I have no duty to make your life especially pleasant. Do you have the patience and courage to allow people to reveal themselves?

What happened to the invitation into the spiritual realm which we send out? Mine read "Welcome, come as you are". What does yours say?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Baile

Ha, that's a good one. Nice. And a reason why I never had kids.

You can borrow some of mine, but just for xmas

[kisalipa]

Buddha preached eradication of desire.

[kisalipa]

Eradicate the ego
Whenever you are doing some appreciable act, immediately you disown yourself from such act. You surrender all the credit to the Lord even before somebody praises about you for it. If somebody is praising you for such act, you pass on the ownership to the Lord at once. Otherwise, the wine of ego will enter your brain and your will be intoxicated with the ego. You will be transformed in to a demon shortly. Some people disown the praise externally but accept the praise in their minds. This is just like actually drinking the wine while negating it orally. In such case also the intoxication of ego is inevitable.

You are thinking that you are the owner or the master of your family. You feel you are the king or the ruler and you think that your family is your kingdom. This is the climax of foolishness and ignorance. You cannot even rule the organs of your body like the heart, kidneys, lungs etc. Even your body is under the control of the Lord alone. How can you control other human beings? Therefore, quit your post of the head of your family. From now onwards you recognise that the Lord is the head of your family. From this moment onwards you feel that you are just a member of your family like any other family member. You belong to the category of ‘ruled’ and you are not at all the ruler. Now your family and your body are under the control of the divine master. If anything happens to your body or to your family, do not get disturbed because rectification is the responsibility of the Lord who is the owner of your body and the family. Only the owner has to worry about any disturbance.

You are not responsible for either the disturbance or its rectification. Let any problem arise, you be calm and peaceful. Even if you are disturbed and feel responsible, you cannot do anything in any case. Suppose you respond to the problem and try to rectify it, even then, you should feel that you are acting as an instrument or a servant of God to do that work. You must feel that you are assigned to solve that problem by the order of the Lord. When the problem is solved you must pass on the entire credit only to the Lord. As I told you, you can experiment with My advice for a month and see the excellent works of the Lord.

[sky]

Originally Posted by kisalipa

Eradicate the ego
Whenever you are doing some appreciable act, immediately you disown yourself from such act. You surrender all the credit to the Lord even before somebody praises about you for it. If somebody is praising you for such act, you pass on the ownership to the Lord at once. Otherwise, the wine of ego will enter your brain and your will be intoxicated with the ego. You will be transformed in to a demon shortly. Some people disown the praise externally but accept the praise in their minds. This is just like actually drinking the wine while negating it orally. In such case also the intoxication of ego is inevitable.

You are thinking that you are the owner or the master of your family. You feel you are the king or the ruler and you think that your family is your kingdom. This is the climax of foolishness and ignorance. You cannot even rule the organs of your body like the heart, kidneys, lungs etc. Even your body is under the control of the Lord alone. How can you control other human beings? Therefore, quit your post of the head of your family. From now onwards you recognise that the Lord is the head of your family. From this moment onwards you feel that you are just a member of your family like any other family member. You belong to the category of ‘ruled’ and you are not at all the ruler. Now your family and your body are under the control of the divine master. If anything happens to your body or to your family, do not get disturbed because rectification is the responsibility of the Lord who is the owner of your body and the family. Only the owner has to worry about any disturbance.

You are not responsible for either the disturbance or its rectification. Let any problem arise, you be calm and peaceful. Even if you are disturbed and feel responsible, you cannot do anything in any case. Suppose you respond to the problem and try to rectify it, even then, you should feel that you are acting as an instrument or a servant of God to do that work. You must feel that you are assigned to solve that problem by the order of the Lord. When the problem is solved you must pass on the entire credit only to the Lord. As I told you, you can experiment with My advice for a month and see the excellent works of the Lord.

' As I told you '..... is that not ego speaking