Imagination vs lucid dream

[Perfect Storm]

I was thinking yesterday.

Could a lucid dream be nothing more then a daydream, whilst our bodies are asleep?

I was sat last night watching TV fully taking in what i saw and heard, body relaxed whilst also at the same time in my mind I was sat on the edge of a fountain infront of a large house during night time. I was kicking my heels up wondering' is this the equivilent of lucid dreaming?'

Sat on the sofa my face did not change, but in my mind I laughed out loud and looked straight up at the night sky. I realised that it was very much the same. I could see the tree line, the fountain edge and wondered that if my body was sending me no visual, hearing or feeling input - would i then find myself in a dream?

What do you think. Is imagination and a dream actually the same thing?

Originally Posted by Athymari

I was thinking yesterday.

Could a lucid dream be nothing more then a daydream, whilst our bodies are asleep?

I was sat last night watching TV fully taking in what i saw and heard, body relaxed whilst also at the same time in my mind I was sat on the edge of a fountain infront of a large house during night time. I was kicking my heels up wondering' is this the equivilent of lucid dreaming?'

Sat on the sofa my face did not change, but in my mind I laughed out loud and looked straight up at the night sky. I realised that it was very much the same. I could see the tree line, the fountain edge and wondered that if my body was sending me no visual, hearing or feeling input - would i then find myself in a dream?

What do you think. Is imagination and a dream actually the same thing?

I suppose they could be, both are forms of consciousness, noetical imagery just concentrated from the opposing side. A day dream is really pretty similar to a night dream for me. Maybe day dreams are triggered by circadian rythyms and you would fall to sleep if the body wasnt so engaged in the activity of being awake. Its much like a meditation hey. I believe the middle ground between these two states is sleep walking where you are conscious in the sub conscious environment and the body follows along as it has nothing else to do. I think you are on to something there Athymari.......thats pretty cool that you can lucid day dream

[Perfect Storm]

My physical senses overwhelm any others, so it fuzzy and obviously its not with the eyes you see, but it made me wonder. I believe dreams are other realms, so does that day dreams are real?

Originally Posted by Athymari

My physical senses overwhelm any others, so it fuzzy and obviously its not with the eyes you see, but it made me wonder. I believe dreams are other realms, so does that day dreams are real?

I believe dreams are other levels of consciousness but am unsure if it is a fixed realm. What is real? Is it the reality where you are consciously living at the time? I think reality exceeds that of the physical realm, more so after you exit it.

[Perfect Storm]

The one thing that made me wonder this was that, like night dreams, when I actively use my imagination to day dream, I often put myself into stories that i make up as i go along. I find this a great place to explore and think these through and generally write myself into my favourite shows/films when bored or waiting to sleep :p In those I find that I tend to see myself in third person rather then in the first.

Then i got to thinking, I generally see third person in my mind, so what if i created that imaginative world on the outside of me using my physical body as my first person perspective?

Is a self-created day dream the same as an 'ordinary' dream that seems to be random from your memory? If so, is it possble to have a day dream thats like a lucid dream and we get to go somewhere else outside our own thoughts and self-created worlds?

I find using the word daydream a bit of a general term.
If you actively and consciously choose to use your imagination then i would say that is a visualisation.

If you are consumed by it and your consciousness falls within levels of the subconscious that displays images i would say this is meditive visualisation.

If you realise that you are in meditive visualisation and consciously take control of the reality i would say that is lucid meditive visualisation.

If you are seeing images as though with your minds eye i would say you are working from within the sub conscious levels, pictures are the language it uses. I believe that you can take conscious control while working within the sub conscious levels in a lucid way. Your conscious point of view can project from your physical body and explore the sub conscious. Being that the sub conscious does store memories i believe it is also portal to explore other frequencies or realms. I believe that different levels of consciousness are like radio frequencies running parallel to each other. I believe that the sub conscious operates in the same range of frequency with other realms. Lets say when your awake your tuned in to FM band and the sub conscious is operating on AM band. If you are asking can people tune their conscious point of view out away from the FM radio band and spend some time living in the AM band id say yes you can. Id say you can also choose which AM station you want to visit or create your own radio station as you seem to do.

As far as i believe you can only be in third person if you create the third person when in the company of another but Yes i have found that you can be in the first person while operating within the subconscious AM band outside your physical FM world while projecting astrally.

[Reverend Keith]

I think there's a slightly different quality between lucid dreams and daydreams. Of course, it might be a matter of degree.

Since I've had lucid dreams that turned into astral projection experiences, my personal view is that a lucid dream is an astral projection into a sort of "dreamspace" in the lower astral.

[Perfect Storm]

I think the quality is in that whilst creatively visualising/daydreaming (self created) you are still taking in input from your physical body and this is stronger then the minds eye and so drowns out what is happeneing elsewhere.

When the body goes to sleep, all this stops, the visuals then come to the front and are as strong as the signals from the body. The difference is whether you are creating and/or aware of it.

Lucid visualising for me has always been daydreaming and has always been self-created for entertainment, usually whilst working :p

Originally Posted by Athymari

I think the quality is in that whilst creatively visualising/daydreaming (self created) you are still taking in input from your physical body and this is stronger then the minds eye and so drowns out what is happeneing elsewhere.

When the body goes to sleep, all this stops, the visuals then come to the front and are as strong as the signals from the body. The difference is whether you are creating and/or aware of it.

Lucid visualising for me has always been daydreaming and has always been self-created for entertainment, usually whilst working :p

It is a very fine balancing act to control the amount of conscious awareness you have while working in the subconscious mind. Like any art there is a heap of training and discipline to be done to keep focus and create thought forms using creative ether without minor physical distractions. I feel that the minds eye is just as strong as the physical eyes but its effectiveness will depend on your ability to focus and keep your conscious point of view within the sub conscious part of the mind. The conscious mind views the sub conscious minds contents and i believe it is a matter of shifting your awareness rather than turning off your physical awareness.

Have you ever used your creative ether to help others aswell?

[Perfect Storm]

I would not have known how to help others with it res.

I have been using this self-creating visualisation for over 20 years. I can sit and work whilst easily playing through alittle self-created story in my mind to entertain myself. Usually based on some TV series as a basis!

I think this inner visualisation is perceived just the same way as when you are looking through your eyes, when your not receving anything from the eyes ie asleep. Its all info that the brain process, but it can only normally 'see' one stream at a time. So one appear 'through' the eyes whilst the other stays in the mind.

For me, when awake and 'lucid daydreaming' (its always lucid for me, I am my own director and star :P) I see it exactly like I would when remembering something my eyes have seen. It is often very clear and detailed and I have often scared myself with it. My eyes do not see but my mind see its.

For example last night, I got up late evening and went into the bath room. I looked out the window and although my eyes saw nothing in my mind there was something rather wolven like stood at the window. Its face was pressed up and I could see the sharp point of its ears.

It was like i had looked, seen it with my eyes, looked away, forgot it, but when I looked back I saw the memory of what was there. but now wasnt.

I had to look at the window for while and was amazed by how real that (I think self created) image was.

I also had to laugh at myself. I told myself/imagination that although that what I expect to see in some horror movie (I dont watch horror anymore) it doesnt happen in this world and my eyes were not seeing it, some part of me was seeing this wolf image and i felt unnerved by it.

I have always done this internally. I wonder what would happen if I were to picture it outside of myself.