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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #51  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:01 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphirez
I wouldn't cite a government funded high school biology textbook as the greatest source of factual information, but in there you will probably hopefully see that it is simple truth that the body must break down proteins into individual amino acids before it can even begin to use them.

Yes that is true of all dietary protein including plant sources.

Quote:
I don't trust that you have done much in-depth research on the facts in question and you're just repeating what the government and your parents and school and society told you to believe and not think about... I don't appreciate your unfounded attack on my post but you're welcome to attempt to back up what you're insinuating point by point if you're capable.. What I've said is the truth whether it jives with what you grew up believing or not.. I grew up believing the same b s that you did I imagine, but I decided to dig for the truth and thankfully I found a lot of it..


I think the point is, one has to be aware of their personal biases or they'll regard bias confirmation as the truth.

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you have no reason to discount what I say and accuse me as you have so rudely. it's not vegan propaganda though your use of that phrase is very telling.. this is information based on deep realistic science and common sense, neither of which the government would allow concentrated in high school textbooks.. but some of the facts are simple, like parts of the human digestion process and how difficult or easy it is to digest certain foods and how the lymphatic system handles what isn't assimilated through basic digestion. tell me what you know about it NoOne


The issue with your source of information regards to how people can use facts to misrepresent the truth. The people who learn nutrition are across all the information and understand how no research results standing alone are 'true', but the entire breadth of research enables quite a nuanced understanding.
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  #52  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:15 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by NoOne
It's not an unfounded attack, rather it is based on empirical evidence, as opposed to what you are promoting. I really don't feel it is my job to re-educate people in basic empirical facts. As I said, I normally don't care if people espouse unscientific views, but it becomes my problem when it might cause genuine harm, like in this case. If I got your drift, you are promoting a raw vegan diet, which is the worst kind a human can have and is genuinely dangerous. People have died or suffered horribly because they were forced to eat a raw vegan diet, children in particular. People have gone to jail over forcing this on their kids and killing them in the process, so you'd better get off your high horse. I will always speak out forcefully against propaganda that causes genuine harm. I am equally scathing about the anti-vaccine movement for the same reason, if you want to go there.




Yea, some people get strange eating ideas in their heads, but most (probably all) raw foodies go back to cooking food, and a vast majority of vegans go back to consuming animal products. You see, these eating ways are not realistically sustainable (for several reasons), and the error of 'diet idealism' is it neglects the first and foremost important consideration: What are the healthy ways of eating an individual can adhere to for the rest of their lives? If that requisite is not met, the diet doesn't 'work'.


(Of course by 'healthy ways of eating' I mean consuming adequate calories with a complete nutrient profile).
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  #53  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:11 PM
TheGlow TheGlow is offline
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my point was we do grow peanuts in Canada. There are a lot of peanut farms near me, but point is moot since we do import more than we use likely for export as peanut butter.
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  #54  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:02 PM
Lucky 1 Lucky 1 is offline
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This conversation has moved on to peanuts???? Did I miss something???
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  #55  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:35 PM
hallow hallow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGlow
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my point was we do grow peanuts in Canada. There are a lot of peanut farms near me, but point is moot since we do import more than we use likely for export as peanut butter.
I didn't know that. Hhhmmmm thanks
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  #56  
Old 18-05-2019, 07:11 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Sure....and some very diligent research shows that 84% of these people who go vegan or vegetarian give it up as unsustainable and go back to consuming animal proteins which fits with what the University of Texas Health Science center has published.

Qoute: Michael Houston PHD, Professor Emeritus of the University of Texas Health Science center concerning veganism ....... "Perhaps 10 to 15 percent of the world wide human population have a metabolism that can be successful being completely free of animal products in there diet"

So that 84% rate of failure tracks pretty darn closely with the professors statement.

And Debrah.....if those 15% who can stay healthy on a vegan diet are happy with it....I'm happy for them! But it just doesn't work for the majority of the world population.


Isn't it interesting that Texas Midland Memorial Hospital started encouraging their patients to adopt a plant vegan diet than? I think that was about a year ago and they not only encourage patients to chose the vegan options, but they are offering classes that are open to staff and the public on how to make the transition.

As well, a quick search will find the following hospitals and medical communities that are now offering/studying plant based diets for the sake of helping people with chronic diseases to recover.

Florida’s Good Samaritan Hospital
Texas Midland Memorial Hospital
Stony Brook University Hospital in NY
Aspen Valley Hospital
Barnard Medical Centre in Washington
Bellevue Hospital in NYC

And Oregon lawmakers have passed a bill requiring all their hospitals to offer vegan meals. https://www.pcrm.org/news/news-relea...eals-hospitals

So it would seem to me that the health benefits are obvious to most medical practitioners. And as more and more fabulous testimonials show up that prove those benefits, the more information will spread, that meat is literally, 'a dead end'. The following FB page has all kinds of testimonials from people whose health was improved by not eating meat or dairy. https://www.facebook.com/thevitalble...f=nf&__x ts__[0]=68.ARATmZpG8zPMygA9gHnsenIrH56Aa5we2mOvx_ISYPKBJ4 Jp25EGk3oLO2mo6tOWbr3okO5HU2Yp3p9pAJnIx3O2SumM2jkY b5ipd-33N9jtDLXWMBOlVsgWQeTLncb9H4SP-gyhGjD7DueXg3PZ5NZXzmrmkhg6MJQTYyiee5o63GLRyH39bcE RLYghNh852D8_Rew4DW-rNIqu6uYKT2saPWpPN5i3el01W96IBRDSwQaq_xJkwQ68Zn31d bY8ZGeP6nsF_bWSx89he2DR1394wfEo8vptC4SuiTyzqDRqvH0 t-bvMP0ldcNX_eiLZv8udR2eWmLpF9QsQ1_Hazn6vh4WzrvBd5ko _IjaeMckU7hMeu8qdH3E

And for the record, I haven't eaten meat for about 25 years and at 64, I'm thriving.
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  #57  
Old 18-05-2019, 07:44 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Sure....and some very diligent research shows that 84% of these people who go vegan or vegetarian give it up as unsustainable and go back to consuming animal proteins which fits with what the University of Texas Health Science center has published.

Qoute: Michael Houston PHD, Professor Emeritus of the University of Texas Health Science center concerning veganism ....... "Perhaps 10 to 15 percent of the world wide human population have a metabolism that can be successful being completely free of animal products in there diet"

So that 84% rate of failure tracks pretty darn closely with the professors statement.

And Debrah.....if those 15% who can stay healthy on a vegan diet are happy with it....I'm happy for them! But it just doesn't work for the majority of the world population.


First of all, Googling your quote from Dr. Houston came up with nothing. So please provide your link.

But I did find as I looked for him, that Dr. Houston, kinesiologist, died at the age of 67. Only 67 years... https://www.hnfe.vt.edu/people/facul...m/houston.html

Compare him to Dr. Ellseworth Wareham, a 104 year old vegan heart surgeon (retired at 95):https://www.kinderworld.org/videos/h...100-years-old/

As for the diligent research that says 84% of vegans go back to eating meat I did come across a discussion page by Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian and vegan about the topic. One thing he pointed out was that many of the people who failed the first time, were open to giving it a try again. https://veganoutreach.org/humane-res...an-recidivism/

It isn't necessarily feeling poorly either, that can cause veg'n's to quit, but the difficulty when eating out (salads and fries over and over get's pathetically boring), as well as the peer pressure that meat eaters invariably foist on anyone in their party who are foregoing meat at dinner. I've had that experience myself, several times ranging from, 'don't you get tired of salads, have a burger' to 'we raised this cow ourselves so you have to try some'.

But as more restaurants are making vegan options available and as more people are accepting of it in general, I think you'd find those recidivism numbers changing.


And I'd also take a moment to remind you that many changes of habit, take a couple of 'false starts' before they get going effectively. For example, I must have quit smoking a dozen times before I became an official non-smoker. That was over 35 years ago (no cigarettes since then) and 25 years since the last time I ate meat and 11 years since I last used a dairy product or eggs.
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  #58  
Old 19-05-2019, 10:43 PM
edithaint edithaint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
First of all, Googling your quote from Dr. Houston came up with nothing. So please provide your link.

But I did find as I looked for him, that Dr. Houston, kinesiologist, died at the age of 67. Only 67 years... https://www.hnfe.vt.edu/people/facul...m/houston.html

Compare him to Dr. Ellseworth Wareham, a 104 year old vegan heart surgeon (retired at 95):https://www.kinderworld.org/videos/h...100-years-old/

As for the diligent research that says 84% of vegans go back to eating meat I did come across a discussion page by Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian and vegan about the topic. One thing he pointed out was that many of the people who failed the first time, were open to giving it a try again. https://veganoutreach.org/humane-res...an-recidivism/

It isn't necessarily feeling poorly either, that can cause veg'n's to quit, but the difficulty when eating out (salads and fries over and over get's pathetically boring), as well as the peer pressure that meat eaters invariably foist on anyone in their party who are foregoing meat at dinner. I've had that experience myself, several times ranging from, 'don't you get tired of salads, have a burger' to 'we raised this cow ourselves so you have to try some'.

But as more restaurants are making vegan options available and as more people are accepting of it in general, I think you'd find those recidivism numbers changing.


And I'd also take a moment to remind you that many changes of habit, take a couple of 'false starts' before they get going effectively. For example, I must have quit smoking a dozen times before I became an official non-smoker. That was over 35 years ago (no cigarettes since then) and 25 years since the last time I ate meat and 11 years since I last used a dairy product or eggs.

67 is much closer to our natural lifespan than 104. With our ever-increasing population and resulting sociocultural issues, maybe we shouldn't really strive to live into our hundreds.
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  #59  
Old 19-05-2019, 10:46 PM
edithaint edithaint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debrah
Isn't it interesting that Texas Midland Memorial Hospital started encouraging their patients to adopt a plant vegan diet than? I think that was about a year ago and they not only encourage patients to chose the vegan options, but they are offering classes that are open to staff and the public on how to make the transition.

As well, a quick search will find the following hospitals and medical communities that are now offering/studying plant based diets for the sake of helping people with chronic diseases to recover.

Florida’s Good Samaritan Hospital
Texas Midland Memorial Hospital
Stony Brook University Hospital in NY
Aspen Valley Hospital
Barnard Medical Centre in Washington
Bellevue Hospital in NYC

And Oregon lawmakers have passed a bill requiring all their hospitals to offer vegan meals. https://www.pcrm.org/news/news-relea...eals-hospitals

So it would seem to me that the health benefits are obvious to most medical practitioners. And as more and more fabulous testimonials show up that prove those benefits, the more information will spread, that meat is literally, 'a dead end'. The following FB page has all kinds of testimonials from people whose health was improved by not eating meat or dairy. https://www.facebook.com/thevitalble...f=nf&__x ts__[0]=68.ARATmZpG8zPMygA9gHnsenIrH56Aa5we2mOvx_ISYPKBJ4 Jp25EGk3oLO2mo6tOWbr3okO5HU2Yp3p9pAJnIx3O2SumM2jkY b5ipd-33N9jtDLXWMBOlVsgWQeTLncb9H4SP-gyhGjD7DueXg3PZ5NZXzmrmkhg6MJQTYyiee5o63GLRyH39bcE RLYghNh852D8_Rew4DW-rNIqu6uYKT2saPWpPN5i3el01W96IBRDSwQaq_xJkwQ68Zn31d bY8ZGeP6nsF_bWSx89he2DR1394wfEo8vptC4SuiTyzqDRqvH0 t-bvMP0ldcNX_eiLZv8udR2eWmLpF9QsQ1_Hazn6vh4WzrvBd5ko _IjaeMckU7hMeu8qdH3E

And for the record, I haven't eaten meat for about 25 years and at 64, I'm thriving.

Because hospitals actually care about health.
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"The universe is random. Not inevitable. It's simple chaos." -- Walter White

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  #60  
Old 20-05-2019, 04:28 AM
JosephineBloggs JosephineBloggs is offline
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67 is much closer to our natural lifespan than 104. With our ever-increasing population and resulting sociocultural issues, maybe we shouldn't really strive to live into our hundreds

The population amount isn't the problem. It's how resources are managed and shared out.
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