Religion

[Iamit]

“About once or twice every month I engage in public debates with those whose pressing need it is to woo and to win the approval of supernatural beings. Very often, when I give my view that there is no supernatural dimension, and certainly not one that is only or especially available to the faithful, and that the natural world is wonderful enough—and even miraculous enough if you insist—I attract pitying looks and anxious questions. How, in that case, I am asked, do I find meaning and purpose in life? How does a mere and gross materialist, with no expectation of a life to come, decide what, if anything, is worth caring about?

Depending on my mood, I sometimes but not always refrain from pointing out what a breathtakingly insulting and patronizing question this is. (It is on a par with the equally subtle inquiry: Since you don't believe in our god, what stops you from stealing and lying and raping and killing to your heart's content?) Just as the answer to the latter question is: self-respect and the desire for the respect of others—while in the meantime it is precisely those who think they have divine permission who are truly capable of any atrocity—so the answer to the first question falls into two parts. A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humor, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless' except if the person living it is also an existentialist and elects to call it so. It could be that all existence is a pointless joke, but it is not in fact possible to live one's everyday life as if this were so. Whereas if one sought to define meaninglessness and futility, the idea that a human life should be expended in the guilty, fearful, self-obsessed propitiation of supernatural nonentities… but there, there. Enough.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Hitch-22: A Memoir

The late great Christopher Hitchens.

He would have also railed against NA and TA for the very same reasons and long may there be such ferocious dissidents.

[Shivani Devi]

Man's search for meaning and purpose is almost as old as the human race itself and it was very quickly discovered that:

1. What satisfied one would hardly ever satisfy another &
2. People believed that others were exactly the same as them.

This combination of diverse beliefs and paradigms caused many wars over nothing more than a 'mental concept', resulting in persecution and injustice all in the name of that 'mental concept'- when what was known as "God" as ANY label/being or manufacture of humanity was, by its nature and intrinsically outside or beyond or transcending all mental concepts with the requirements of omniscience and omnipotence.

Some, the rare few, had glimpses, visions and even direct experiences into this and so, they put into writing what they had witnessed, outlining what they did to have these 'religious epiphanies' and to experience this 'divine beautitude', so that others may follow in their footsteps and in their wake after they moved on from this earthly plane.

These sacred writings amassed many followers during their times, as a book from any New-Age author would today and there were also the living proponents of these teachings called "the Adepts". Over many hundreds of years, the followings grew, the original teachings of the time were altered into almost an unrecognisable form from the original teachings...and voila, religion was born.

The whole tenet behind EVERY religion, dogma, code, creed, duality, non-duality and whatever is simply this nothing more/less...so listen up:

1. There is more to this life than just a mere existence being a mindless automaton with the ego in charge.
2. By surrendering/bypassing/dropping the ego in relation to who we only THINK we are, what is behind that will reveal itself and become known.

That's all there is to it...every code, every religion, every spiritual path and purpose...

The details are all left up to the individual person as to how they wish to go about it, but all of human history and society is based upon it and all wars and arguments, disagreements (about something that cannot be disagreed upon) and everything that goes on between one person and another in regards, all goes back to those first two points I mentioned:

1. What satisfied one would hardly ever satisfy another &
2. People believed that others were exactly the same as them.

The end.

[Iamit]

Let them have thier religions but if they smear you as they do here because you object to thier totalitarianism, read Hitchens or view him on youtube for an entertaining account of where that has ended up historically and take that warning seriously.

Good luck.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Let them have thier religions but if they smear you as they do here because you object to thier totalitarianism, read Hitchens or view him on youtube for an entertaining account of where that has ended up historically and take that warning seriously.

Good luck.

Do you know what God thinks about human totalitarianism? Nothing! He just laughs at us...seriously!

He just laughs at our human folly in His name and all of us falling over each other to try and understand Him...it's totally hilarious from His perspective!

It's why He came up with the notion that we are to believe that He gave us 'free will' when He didn't...so He could get out the popcorn and watch us kill each other over it...seriously!

If another calls me, or my beliefs, my religion or whatever 'bad names' I'm like:

"Well, that's only ONE view out of 8 Billion" and that in no way can be a 'totalitarian' one...CAN IT?

I am totally indifferent to praise or criticism. I wonder why that is?

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Do you know what God thinks about human totalitarianism? Nothing! He just laughs at us...seriously!

He just laughs at our human folly in His name and all of us falling over each other to try and understand Him...it's totally hilarious from His perspective!

It's why He came up with the notion that we are to believe that He gave us 'free will' when He didn't...so He could get out the popcorn and watch us kill each other over it...seriously!

If another calls me, or my beliefs, my religion or whatever 'bad names' I'm like:

"Well, that's only ONE view out of 8 Billion" and that in no way can be a 'totalitarian' one...CAN IT?

I am totally indifferent to praise or criticism. I wonder why that is?

Who is this god of yours? Is 'HE', whoever he is, not all powerful and all knowing? and therefore presiding over all suffering? Please give us a break from this nonsense. Luckily you will never have the power to impose 'HIM' on us at least we had better hope not.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Who is this god of yours? Is 'HE', whoever he is, not all powerful and all knowing? and therefore presiding over all suffering? Please give us a break from this nonsense. Luckily you will never have the power to impose 'HIM' on us at least we had better hope not.

*laughs*

Whether I say He/She/It - that matters not. It only highlights the limits of human language anyway.

I will never give you a break from what you refer to as 'nonsense' according to your singular, limited, mortal opinion which is only just pee-ing into my huge ocean of "cares not given"....and yes, I am addressing you and not this imaginary entourage you claim to be the spokesperson for.

So, you can sit there, at your keyboard, exercising your fingers all you like in regards, but apart from flapping your 'internet lips' what are you going to do about my rude 'imposition' into your online life? onto all these purposeless, inane threads you create?

You cannot stop me, can you? You can't, no matter how much you want to, can you? try it!...go on!

There's nothing you can do that will stop me from imposing my rights in total spite of yours, is there?

C'mon, do something about it...about my power to say what I want, when I want to who I want- what are you waiting for?

Stop me from typing anything I want right now....DO IT! I'm waiting...

...and yep, this 'God of mine' is Shiva and it gets much better than this! - I'm usually the one bringing out the popcorn, marshmallows and Pepsi when "He" starts. ;)

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

*laughs*

Whether I say He/She/It - that matters not. It only highlights the limits of human language anyway.

I will never give you a break from what you refer to as 'nonsense' according to your singular, limited, mortal opinion which is only just pee-ing into my huge ocean of "cares not given"....and yes, I am addressing you and not this imaginary entourage you claim to be the spokesperson for.

So, you can sit there, at your keyboard, exercising your fingers all you like in regards, but apart from flapping your 'internet lips' what are you going to do about my rude 'imposition' into your online life? onto all these purposeless, inane threads you create?

You cannot stop me, can you? You can't, no matter how much you want to, can you? try it!...go on!

There's nothing you can do that will stop me from imposing my rights in total spite of yours, is there?

C'mon, do something about it...about my power to say what I want, when I want to who I want- what are you waiting for?

Stop me from typing anything I want right now....DO IT! I'm waiting...

...and yep, this 'God of mine' is Shiva and it gets much better than this! - I'm usually the one bringing out the popcorn, marshmallows and Pepsi when "He" starts. ;)

There is no hope of stopping such as you until you get physicaally violent by imprisoning dissidents or worse. Then, as can be seen from history, you have always lost in the end, and long may that continue to be the case

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

There is no hope of stopping such as you until you get physicaally violent by imprisoning dissidents or worse. Then, as can be seen from history, you have always lost in the end, and long may that continue to be the case

That was history! The totalitarians aren't losing now, are they? The weak shall be overthrown and imprisoned. All those who follow the path of NA will be smeared, abused and persecuted for being 'free thinkers' in this New World Order. We shall burn all your precious books, call you insane and throw you in jail or institutions...but again, apart from being a 'keyboard warrior' on a Spiritual Forum who couldn't care less, what are you going to do about all this? Action needs to be taken and it needs to be taken now before it's too late! Can't you see?

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

That was history! The totalitarians aren't losing now, are they? The weak shall be overthrown and imprisoned. All those who follow the path of NA will be smeared, abused and persecuted for being 'free thinkers' in this New World Order. We shall burn all your precious books, call you insane and throw you in jail or institutions...but again, apart from being a 'keyboard warrior' on a Spiritual Forum who couldn't care less, what are you going to do about all this? Action needs to be taken and it needs to be taken now before it's too late! Can't you see?

You are displaying the attitudes you describe above on this forum and there are numerous examples where those with such attitudes become violent. Take your head out of the sand and check out Amnesty International/Human Rights
Watch for current examples of religious violence.

"Religion has caused innumerable people.....to behave in ways that would make a brothel keeper or an ethnic cleanser raise an eyebrow" Chris Hitchens.

There is nothing we can do about the attitudes you display other than point out where it leads. Should you take the next step and start to put those attitudes into violent action, I hope you will continue to be defeated as you have been in the past. and am confident that that will be the case.

[Shivani Devi]

I can see that even trying to reason with you irrationally through use of your own logic had no effect either - oh boy!

You missed your calling as a Christian fundamentalist! You'd have a field day being totally lost within the dual dogma of religious persecution throughout the ages in the name of your faith - but don't mind me, I'm just Satan having his way with your soul.

You may not be able to stop me from posting, but now...to apply my Divine Will to the Forum's Server...thou shalt WORK!