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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #31  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:26 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
Energy is neutral in my understanding. As humans we can take it every which way or not at all.
In short, your reality is defined by your beliefs, your beliefs are defined by your perceptions and your perceptions are defined by your definitions. Define it as 'negative' and you create your own suckiness. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
The dark is as much part of the experience as is the light. We can't influence circumstance much. We can choose how we act.

Somehow my go to release for the darker energies is arguing with so called light workers who appear to be full of it.

With Love
Eelco
In Jung's Allegory of Alchemy and The Philosopher's Stone he said that what the alchemists were looking for was what he called the Prima Materia that's hidden in the darkness - the place where Spiritual people fear to tread. Essentially, the Prima Materia is what is left when all else is taken away and is the material from which all else is made.


Thing is, if consciousness is The Light (or is it vice versa?) and you have become conscious of the dark, surely that means the dark has created The Light? Either that or you have taken the darkness into your consciousness/Light, which means?????


Can I go Home now? My head hurts.
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  #32  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:53 AM
Eelco
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
In short, your reality is defined by your beliefs, your beliefs are defined by your perceptions and your perceptions are defined by your definitions. Define it as 'negative' and you create your own suckiness. Sorry, couldn't resist.

In Jung's Allegory of Alchemy and The Philosopher's Stone he said that what the alchemists were looking for was what he called the Prima Materia that's hidden in the darkness - the place where Spiritual people fear to tread. Essentially, the Prima Materia is what is left when all else is taken away and is the material from which all else is made.

Thing is, if consciousness is The Light (or is it vice versa?) and you have become conscious of the dark, surely that means the dark has created The Light? Either that or you have taken the darkness into your consciousness/Light, which means?????

Can I go Home now? My head hurts.

Yes you can. I agree with what I understand and do some pondering on the Prima Materia thing.

Consciousness is not The Light.
It is just that quality which illuminates whatever is. Like you say it's our beliefs who qualify what we illuminated as light or dark, good or bad, positive or negative..

Which doesn't always fly because when we light a candle in a dark room the never was any darkness, just an absence of illumination.

Once we see how our own "negativity" operates it isn't frightening or dark or unworthy anymore. It becomes what it always has been. Sometimes a lack in understanding, sometimes a narrow point of view. Or an emotion we aren't used to deal with. Like the inclination to castrate child-molesters without anesthesia.

With Love
Eelco
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2018, 05:55 PM
lemex lemex is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
There are no secondary.


Have you ever changed your mind. In fact I know it takes a long time to often calm down. When I say secondary I mean being mindful and not reacting based on emotion perception. Secondary imo, say to anger would be becoming calm and still when the initial reaction would be anger. Yelling is an example. The first response. Two emotions cannot exist or be experienced at the same time. Anger for instances usually has different outcomes then say being in balance. I use what happens as a measurement, so this is me. Secondary would be achieving say balance while experience anger. Secondary would be the continued practice of calmness and balance as an example until it is mastered. Now I know this is what spiritual people pursue and not the average person who must live in competitive ways. Think of it as doing what one does not do. Here is an example. If I say I am right! It is neither negative or positive, that's the experience. When a person feels they are right, do they argue and listen. I know I refuse to listen. As I have said, I have heard others say I don't care. We want to win, that's our perception. The impulse is not to listen where the first response (action) is argue.


Quote:
So while we're here, what makes those thoughts (feelings) into either positive or negative?

Now this is interesting. I am aware of this and feel it. How do we determine if an act is positive or negative. I guess when talking about positive or negative has to include another's POV since there is cause and effect. Let's be honest, let's say a person gets me upset. If another POV says it is, I won't ignore it. I tend to use other's POV and what they see, but again that's just me. What the person did was not seen as positive or negative. Any action I take is also not positive or negative to me. As much as neither see the act positive or negative we will always say there is positive or negative which is a measurement we must have.


But you already know what make thoughts positive and negative, it is biochemical that include hormones that transmits information to the body. There is already a script within us. And as far as I see is part of brain's processing. I know people have little respect for emotion and feels everything is a pure thought. Sometimes it is about over coming and changing if not feelings, then thoughts.


Quote:
Because that's not a part of the brain's signal processing.

As you are aware, emotion arise out of the limbic system. The limbic system begins the process. Remember this happens if you will at great speeds that one is not aware of.

Quote:

Same goes for energy and anger - both of which I know about. I once became so angry that my only thought was to kill a guy as quickly and as efficiently as I could after he'd pushed me too far once too often. That was quite positive because he came to know my limits and the possible consequences of breaking them. There was no negativity at all, it was a very positive learning experience for him and he should have been grateful. So if you label that as 'negative', what is it that you're actually labelling? Would it be 'negative' if I'd controlled my temper and he'd not seen the light, would it have been 'positive' to keep all that energy pent up to the point where it ended up being detrimental? While that's all tongue-in-cheek the point is that 'positive' and 'negative' are what you want to think they are, what they are not are Universal Laws.


This brings back memories for me, I did this to. I recognized the point made about my interaction, for me there was no feeling of negativity existent to as well as it was a learning experience about myself. But the point about if they hadn't seen the light is reflective for me, what if they had not seen the light. Is it the feeling of winning that diffused the emotional (thought) challenge. One has to let go even if one doesn't win. A person feels threatened and arguing is little different then a fight.

Quote:

In cognitive terms positive and negative is cognitive dissonance. which is also known as the 'lock on, lock out' principle. Basically the brain 'locks on' to certain things

Exactly what I was talking about. Accessing that which is locked out or locked on is the secondary that exists a potential thought that one can see, but don't. It doesn't exist but can and dare I say will. Much of what you say can be seen in different ways and there is no single way to say it. I am not intending this as an argument just what I see from my own experiencing and clarify. Thanks
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  #34  
Old 10-06-2018, 07:58 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
Yes you can. I agree with what I understand and do some pondering on the Prima Materia thing.

Consciousness is not The Light.
It is just that quality which illuminates whatever is. Like you say it's our beliefs who qualify what we illuminated as light or dark, good or bad, positive or negative..

Which doesn't always fly because when we light a candle in a dark room the never was any darkness, just an absence of illumination.

Once we see how our own "negativity" operates it isn't frightening or dark or unworthy anymore. It becomes what it always has been. Sometimes a lack in understanding, sometimes a narrow point of view. Or an emotion we aren't used to deal with. Like the inclination to castrate child-molesters without anesthesia.

With Love
Eelco
The Prima Materia allegory is thought-provoking and it made me think in a different way - many things did but this one in particular because I could take something 'negative' and turn it into something much more beneficial. Letting go of the labels helped too.Like wanting to castrate child-molesters without anaesthesia. I spent a few years in the against-child abuse arena and gained some insights that I would never have suspected because I 'lit a candle against the darkness'. That still didn't stop me from wanting to become a harbinger for Karmic balance and symmetry of course. But things do look differently when you redress the absence of illumination. I guess ignorance is one thing and ignor-ance is something else again.



We have things for a reason and that includes the 'negative' stuff, all we have to do is turn it around. I guess that's too much work for some people, slapping labels on is easier.
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  #35  
Old 10-06-2018, 09:03 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Have you ever changed your mind. In fact I know it takes a long time to often calm down. When I say secondary I mean being mindful and not reacting based on emotion perception. Secondary imo, say to anger would be becoming calm and still when the initial reaction would be anger. Yelling is an example. The first response. Two emotions cannot exist or be experienced at the same time. Anger for instances usually has different outcomes then say being in balance. I use what happens as a measurement, so this is me. Secondary would be achieving say balance while experience anger. Secondary would be the continued practice of calmness and balance as an example until it is mastered. Now I know this is what spiritual people pursue and not the average person who must live in competitive ways. Think of it as doing what one does not do. Here is an example. If I say I am right! It is neither negative or positive, that's the experience. When a person feels they are right, do they argue and listen. I know I refuse to listen. As I have said, I have heard others say I don't care. We want to win, that's our perception. The impulse is not to listen where the first response (action) is argue.
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Einstein said that if you can explain it simply you don't know what you're talking about.

Changing your mind only changes the pathways the signals take, nothing more and if it takes you a long time are you either very excitable or have you strong female energies running through you? If it takes you a long time then are you talking about brain processes or the chemicals that are pumped through your bloodstream, like adrenaline for instance? That is a chemical reaction, as is any emotion. If you are angry your bloodstream is full of chemicals and how do you balance anger, what is it out of balance compared to? What is there less of? There's no reason why you can't have your bloodstream pumped full of adrenaline while still having a completely clear mind. Sports people have been doing it for years. What!! Shock!! Horror!!

If a person feels they are right it's ego. Positive and negative is ego, 'is' because it's extremes of the same thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Now this is interesting. I am aware of this and feel it. How do we determine if an act is positive or negative. I guess when talking about positive or negative has to include another's POV since there is cause and effect. Let's be honest, let's say a person gets me upset. If another POV says it is, I won't ignore it. I tend to use other's POV and what they see, but again that's just me. What the person did was not seen as positive or negative. Any action I take is also not positive or negative to me. As much as neither see the act positive or negative we will always say there is positive or negative which is a measurement we must have.

But you already know what make thoughts positive and negative, it is biochemical that include hormones that transmits information to the body. There is already a script within us. And as far as I see is part of brain's processing. I know people have little respect for emotion and feels everything is a pure thought. Sometimes it is about over coming and changing if not feelings, then thoughts.
This is where it all starts, deciding what makes our perception - and it really is a perception - either positive or negative. So, I punch you on the nose for being so convoluted in your discussion and from that you learn the lesson that you're babbling on. The next time you have a discussion you hit the nail on the head and have done with it. Positive or negative?

Positive and negative in this case are right and wrong.


No, I don't know what makes thoughts either positive or negative, this is just what we're discussing. Thoughts are thoughts and nothing changes to make them either positive or negative other than which pathways are being used to process them. 'Positive ' thoughts go this road, 'negative' go that road. That's it, that's all there is. Those signals pump you full of adrenaline, those signals pump you full of 'feel the lurve, baby'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
As you are aware, emotion arise out of the limbic system. The limbic system begins the process. Remember this happens if you will at great speeds that one is not aware of.
That's triggered by your brain. There's a process at work here and your emotions kick in quite a way down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
This brings back memories for me, I did this to. I recognized the point made about my interaction, for me there was no feeling of negativity existent to as well as it was a learning experience about myself. But the point about if they hadn't seen the light is reflective for me, what if they had not seen the light. Is it the feeling of winning that diffused the emotional (thought) challenge. One has to let go even if one doesn't win. A person feels threatened and arguing is little different then a fight.
This is the cool stuff that happens when you drop the labels and focus on something more important, there is always something behind the mask. It's also what I've been trying to put across this whole conversation, that once you throw this 'positive' and 'negative' baloney out of the window realisations come. Realisations can't happen in a head full of cognitive dissonance. Win or lose is egotistical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Exactly what I was talking about. Accessing that which is locked out or locked on is the secondary that exists a potential thought that one can see, but don't. It doesn't exist but can and dare I say will. Much of what you say can be seen in different ways and there is no single way to say it. I am not intending this as an argument just what I see from my own experiencing and clarify. Thanks
Amen, we got there. By the way, watch out for the tongue in the cheek because it's a doozy.

The huge problem with 'positive' and 'negative' is that it's a stolen metaphor gone wrong. The metaphor is that of a graph where there is a line drawn, anything above that line (feels good, no dissonance) is positive and not up to expectations is negative. However, if you take the electrical metaphor it all makes sense because then the interaction becomes an energy exchange, the potential difference is the difference between what's in your head and mine, and there's a two-way flow of energy - current one way, electrons the other way. Put that all together and the Light comes on. Hurrah!!! Goody gumdrops and jolly hockey sticks!!! So yeah, it's OK to have that argument because it gets the braincells stimulated and the emotions kicking in, and while you're pulling in stuff to argue your case I'm doing the same. In between there's an energy-go-around and it gets interesting and inspiring. And if the worst case scenario happens we'll agree to disagree and it's your turn for the beers again, and you'll still be my besty. That's the place where positive and negative makes sense because we're not opposite, we're different.
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