mormonism and occult, similar

[LibraIndigo]

Anyone ever study mormonism?

The more I read on both subjects, I am noticing striking similarities between mormonism and New Age and occult beliefs.

Its funny because when I was younger I pretty much thought they were crazies (based on what my parents told me). Now I regret judgment without better understanding.

Anyone ever notice the similarities? If not I can point them out. I think its actually mind of fun and interesting! I actually think the Mormons are kind of right! Along with the Muslims and the rest of them. I think all the religions are pieces to the puzzle and maybe the Mormons aren't the crazies most people point them out to be.

I may be on your ignore list but others may care to consider that the fields of interest are vast. New age covers many beliefs and philosophies, so does "occult" of which there are many currents. The overlap is huge. One feature of both is you can develop your own grimoire, holy book, etc.

Mormonism seemed a subset of the Christian faith but they are rather different. I'm no student of it so my knowledge arises only from them turning up on my parents' doorstep some while ago, plus the inevitable questions I asked elsewhere, However, both are religions and thus not about individual spiritual development. It may be fair to say you need a certain spirituality to be religious but you don't need to be religious to be spiritual. In religions you're told what to believe and you obey. The priests take over responsibility for your spiritual health.

However, it seems that religions are also pervading the "New Age" - the recent rise in Mormon popularity is a sign so they also overlap. LaVey's Church of Satan, another example.

There will be similarities but there are differences.

[LibraIndigo]

Well looks like no one answered but I will continue.

After my GPS kept circling me around a morman church a few years ago, I figured that was a sign that I should read up in this mormon religion instead of accepting the programming my parents gave me as fact...so I found some kid's website...can't find it now but I remember it has the whole story really dummied down and fun and easy to read with pictures and everything.

Now I am reading Initiation, Human and Solar by Alice Bailey...its interesting because according to that book there is a planetary trinity as well as a universal trinity, with other offices below and that and the positions have to be worked up to.

I remember distincly reading when I found that children's site that apparently when Jesus appeared to Joe Smith he told him that he had not always been what he is but "he worked up to it" and earned his position.

Interesting I thought! I stopped my study of mormonism after finding that site because I figured I had learned enough to keep in my pocket for a better understanding of the whole of things for now. Now two years later I am finding these occult books and saying "wait a minute! This looks strikingly familiar". Then I head back to finding the mormon stuff and find even -more- similarities. I think they are just like Christian mystics or something...but got a bad rap because of some of their members.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by LibraIndigo

Well looks like no one answered but I will continue.

After my GPS kept circling me around a morman church a few years ago, I figured that was a sign that I should read up in this mormon religion instead of accepting the programming my parents gave me as fact...so I found some kids website...kind find it now but I remember it has the whole story really dummied down and fun and easy to read with pictures and everything.

Now I am reading Initiation, Human and Solar by Alice Bailey...its interesting because according to that book there is a planetary trinity as well as a universal trinity, with other offices below and that the positions have to be worked up to.

I remember distincly reading when I found that children's site that apparently when Jesus appeared to Joe Smith he told him that he had not always been what he is but "he worked up to it".

Interesting I thought! I stopped my study of mormonism after finding that site because I figured I had learned enough to keep in my pocket for a better understanding of the whole of things for now. Now two years later I am finding these occult books and saying "wait a minute! This looks strikingly familiar". Then I head back to finding thehe mormon stuff and find even -more- similarities. I think they are just like Christian mystics or something...but got a bad rap because of some of their members.

Yah...It's certainly the latter. Really who cares exactly how folks come to peace & love as long as they don't discriminate, oppress, or engage in a lifestyle that degrades and oppresses others. It's that last bit that got them. They love Jesus sure but they had to change that bit about monogamy which didn't suit them.

I am not positive but in Jesus's day I believe it may have been still acceptable for Jewish men to have a 2nd wife, though no doubt it was always very unpopular with women. The practice persisted in Muslim countries and still does to this day in some, because woman are still treated like chattel and sex slaves in some countries. But Jesus spoke of monogamy only (or else celibacy) which was radical for the day. Because it accorded a woman's humanity and dignity as equal to a man's.

The new age Mormon folks wanted all his teachings except that one, so they could indulge themselves by oppressing women, just as primitive Semitic tribes did 2000 yrs ago in the desert (when survival was at a premium and the heavy hand of the patriarchy ruled), but which is now completely out of step with the times. It would be like re-instating slavery or indentured servitude and saying that was cool again just because we say so and want to indulge ourselves at someone else's expense. You can't dress that bit up...it's just ugly. They lost their way there. And that's why the "mainstream" Mormons have renounced that bit and practice monogamy now too.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I may be on your ignore list but others may care to consider that the fields of interest are vast. New age covers many beliefs and philosophies, so does "occult" of which there are many currents. The overlap is huge. One feature of both is you can develop your own grimoire, holy book, etc.

Mormonism seemed a subset of the Christian faith but they are rather different. I'm no student of it so my knowledge arises only from them turning up on my parents' doorstep some while ago, plus the inevitable questions I asked elsewhere, However, both are religions and thus not about individual spiritual development. It may be fair to say you need a certain spirituality to be religious but you don't need to be religious to be spiritual. In religions you're told what to believe and you obey. The priests take over responsibility for your spiritual health.

However, it seems that religions are also pervading the "New Age" - the recent rise in Mormon popularity is a sign so they also overlap. LaVey's Church of Satan, another example.

There will be similarities but there are differences.

Well said.


.

[LibraIndigo]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Yah...It's certainly the latter. Really who cares exactly how folks come to peace & love as long as they don't discriminate, oppress, or engage in a lifestyle that degrades and oppresses others. It's that last bit that got them. They love Jesus sure but they had to change that bit about monogamy which didn't suit them.

I am not positive but in Jesus's day I believe it may have been still acceptable for Jewish men to have a 2nd wife, though no doubt it was always very unpopular with women. The practice persisted in Muslim countries and still does to this day in some, because woman are still treated like chattel and sex slaves in some countries. But Jesus spoke of monogamy only (or else celibacy) which was radical for the day. Because it accorded a woman's humanity and dignity as equal to a man's.

The new age Mormon folks wanted all his teachings except that one, so they could indulge themselves by oppressing women, just as primitive Semitic tribes did 2000 yrs ago in the desert (when survival was at a premium and the heavy hand of the patriarchy ruled), but which is now completely out of step with the times. It would be like re-instating slavery or indentured servitude and saying that was cool again just because we say so and want to indulge ourselves at someone else's expense. You can't dress that bit up...it's just ugly. They lost their way there. And that's why the "mainstream" Mormons have renounced that bit and practice monogamy now too.

Peace & blessings
7L

I dunno, I looked for it I can't see where Jesus specifically says that, there are countless cases of polygamy in the Bible. It seems to me the idea of polygamy(being wrong) is a western thing. I once met a woman from Africa who explained that polygamy worked quite well (for people from her area) she said it was easier on the women there because they could watch each others children and had more freedom.

I do believe the original intent was for one man and one women...specifically in the case of twin flames. The idea of oppressing women is wrong but if its free will and someone -wants- to be polygamous they should be allowed. I heard somewhere by someone who works in psychiatry for the military that the true reason polygamy is outlawed in the US is because then there would be hords of poorer men without wives...thus they would revolt and become extremists (as has happened in the poorer Muslim countries) he explained that the reason for terrorism is largely because of polygamy in these countries (coupled with economic woes).

When I think of things the mormons have done, what comes to mind that upsets me isnt "polygamy" maybe forced polygamy or oppression of any kind but I can't think polygamy is bad.

Anyway I will post the other striking similarities I have found between Alice Bailey's book on the occult and mormonism when I have time later.

Alice Bailey?
Crikey!
I can't wait to see what you write about her. Another theosophist.

[LibraIndigo]

Wow, can I get a cyber-restraining order!?

Lol geez.

Mormons also believe that humans posses healings abilities through the hands (makes me think of reiki) : )

And that there are modern day "prophets" ...mediums?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by LibraIndigo

I dunno, I looked for it I can't see where Jesus specifically says that, there are countless cases of polygamy in the Bible. It seems to me the idea of polygamy is a western thing. I once met a woman from Africa who explained that polygamy worked quite well (for people from her area) she said it was easier on the women there because they could watch each others children and had more freedom.

I do believe the original intent was for one man and one women...specifically in the case of twin flames. The idea of oppressing women is wrong but if its free will and someone -wants- to be polygamous they should be allowed. I heard somewhere by someone who works in psychiatry for the military that the true reason polygamy is outlawed in the US is because then there would be hords of poorer men without wives...thus they would revolt and become extremists (as has happened in the poorer Muslim countries) he explained that the reason for terrorism is largely because of polygamy in these countries (coupled with economic woes).

When I think of things the mormons have done, what comes to mind that upsets me isnt "polygamy" maybe forced polygamy or oppression of any kind but I can't think polygamy is bad.

Anyway I will post the other striking similarities I have found between Alice Bailey's book on the occult and mormonism when I have time later.

Libra, hello!

Yah, definitely the mid-east 2000 yrs ago allowed polygamy, because women had a very low status and were considered as chattel and slaves. But it was not in keeping with the tenets of the Jewish faith, nor the later Christian one. We are shown many instances of polygamy, but it was never preferred by the doctrines...instead, it merely reflects the baseness of the culture at that time that had already existed for centuries, and had not yet sworn off things such as polygamy (not approved) or even indentured servitude (which was still ok then under certain strict time limits).

(And definitely many Muslim and African countries still continue the practice...and YES polygamy is associated with social violence and instability for the very reasons you mention). That doesn't make it a "Western" thing per se, though. Rulers in the far East had harems & concubines too...it is all based on the supremacy of patriarchy and the oppression & exploitation of women for sex and perhaps for breeding.

Here are the passages commonly looked at regarding monogamy as the ideal in both Judaism and Christianity (though I am no Christian scholar).

It starts in Genesis...and I assume that's what you're referring to. Then, in the Christian bible, Jesus refers back to Genesis, because Jesus was an observant Jew:

First, when Jesus was asked about the practice of divorce, He pointed back to "the beginning," (Genesis) and that God made one woman for one man, and that the "two" should become one flesh (Matthew 19:3-9).
....
Second, in the New Testament the Corinthians are told "Let every man have his own wife, and every woman have her own husband" (I Corinthians 7:2). That "wife" is singular, and that "husband" is singular.

The 10th Commandment ‘… You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife [singular] …’ (Exodus 20:17) also presupposes the ideal that there is only one wife. Polygamy is expressly forbidden for church elders (1 Tim. 3:2). And this is not just for elders, because Paul also wrote: ‘each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.’ Paul goes on to explain marital duties in terms that make sense only with one husband to one wife.

The example of godly people is also important. Isaac and Rebekah were monogamous—they are often used as a model in Jewish weddings today. Other examples were Joseph and Asenath, and Moses and Zipporah. And the only survivors of the Flood were four monogamous couples.

Here's some additional background on the culture of those days, regarding monogamy. What it is, is that the culture was pretty debased in some ways if you did not strive to transcend that baseness (much like today in other ways), but yet many were debased, and so they partook of the exploitation of women because that's where they were at and because they could. Not because it was holy or good or condoned by their faith traditions or what have ye.

A very important point to remember is that not everything recorded in the Bible is approved in the Bible. Consider where polygamy originated—first in the line of the murderer Cain, not the line of Seth. The first recorded polygamist was the murderer Lamech (Gen. 4:23–24). Then Esau, who despised his birthright, also caused much grief to his parents by marrying two pagan wives (Gen. 26:34).

God also forbade the kings of Israel to be polygamous (Deut. 17:17). Look at the trouble when they disobeyed, including deadly sibling rivalry between David’s sons from his different wives (2 Samuel 13, 1 Kings 2); and Solomon’s hundreds of wives helped lead Solomon to idolatry (1 Kings 11:1–3). Also, Hannah, Samuel’s mother, was humiliated by her husband Elkanah’s other wife Peninnah (1 Sam. 1:1–7).

Interesting stuff...

Peace & blessings
7L

[LibraIndigo]

I do agree that it isnt ideal. Anything other than being with the TF is not "ideal". I do beleive that in some cases people whose circumstances that bring them wilfully into polygamous situations can learn something.

Anyway, Bailey's book is not about polygamy. Hasn't mentioned anything about it. I am not saying that mormon's hold the ultimate truth, just that they might have -some- truths. So far the book just explains the hierchy of the spirit world. Will post a pic of the diagram shortly