questions for you life purpose/ karma believers

I'm readling "Soul Survivor" by the Leinengers - there's is the little boy who was featured on ABC primetime who remembered a life as a WWII pilot - if you ever wanted to learn the details of how someone remembers a past life - when his father doesn't believe him - it's this book. Highly recommended.

Hello Res,

My 2 cents:

What I cant understand is why would we need a physical body to understand emotions that are not physical in nature to begin with?
Within the spiritual realm like-attracts-like to a point where in so we could not experience our karma in a way that is cross woven with other levels. We can not be teacher and student. Creator and Actor. The difference in experience is unique to our physical realm.

Cant those in spirit form feel emotion or recognise it enough that they wouldnt need to get a body and suffer for the most part here on earth?
Yes those in spirit form feel emotion but diffrently...as to suffering, suffering is a creation of the fixation to the underlying field. Remove the field, yes you remove the suffering but also the ability to transcend said field. That is to say where in the spirit realm you can feel anger and that be OK because it is not sustained by an underlying field, you can still get trapped in that field. In the physical you can feel anger and that be ok even despite the sustaining field.

Sorry to use unclear language. I hope it still makes sense.

If there is a cosmic consciousness that all/most/some can access then why would there be a need to come here to learn lessons that are already known by those that have lived on earth throughout the ages?
Spiritual realms are known to be stratified, in that it can have a limitation of another kind.

Could it just be human nature and an unbalance of the basic programming of the human mind to need to reproduce. A fault in someones wiring, a condition of the imperfection that makes us human maybe?
First I agree that to condone a horrible experience is foolish; however, when we divide the world into victim and offender, we miss the inherit commonality. We miss that we are all vulnerable to the underlying field and that it is only by grace and willingness that we can transcend.

In meditation and dreams I can learn just as well as I do here in the physical, maybe more in some instances as there are no physical repercussions. Its like a life simulator where you dont die when you make a mistake or walk in to the path of a psychopath.
The very essence of karma is in dealing more with the consequences of our action or karma.

why hasnt spirit used one of the other realms as a simulator where souls wake up just before being abused but get the idea rather than spend up to 100 odd years broken with people teaching you wisdom that suggests that you deserve it or asked for it.
Who is to say they haven't? It simply isn't our realm.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that the purpose of coming to earth is to generally enjoy the physical pleasures and that the enlightened ones give us a choice of path which contains 50% of the negative also that cant be avoided. The choices that some make are not to experience particular negative lessons but have to be accepted if we want to come to earth. Being that we recall the total accumulation of what we have experienced we could opt to not go through what we have already experienced and choose something new for each of our own reasons.
No, but I believe it presents a paradigm where pleasure comes at a cost, which I think can be dangerous.

very minimal time wasted on why am i being punished or what do i have to learn from this. We could all accept that "faeces happens" in impersonal circumstances, learn to be more carefull and focus on increasing the happiness in life rather than looking for ways to justify why bad things happen to good people.
A good philosophy by any measure :)
However, I don't think the contrast is between detachment and justifing why bad things happen; but, acceptance and punishment.

Originally Posted by RichMartini

Yes, res, that's the prevailing view of science; that it's cryptomnesia - something you read or saw that is merely planted in your subconscious. But that doesn't explain, or take into account the amount of people who claim the same kinds of things - not in a past life memory, but in the between life memory.

In that realm people report seeing a soul group, a spirit guide, a library of souls, classrooms, council of elders - in varying forms, but with incredible repetition. Newton cataloged thousands of cases before publishing a word - so that couldn't be the case in his work. In my case, I specifically chose people who'd never heard of Newton or his work, people who were skeptics - and they all had the same experience.

In a past life memory it's easy to point to someone having heard or read about an event. Except in the cases where people are very specific about events and couldn't possibly have known about them. I cite a case of an Oxford professor who remembered a past life with another woman - and then I arranged, without the woman knowing anything about his session, or the therapist knowing anything about it - and she had the same past life memory - married to this fellow in Boston in the 1840's.

Two different people on two different continents, two different therapists who didn't know each other (but who both trained with Michael Newton). <snip> this woman not only examined her past life memory as an Indian healer (and couldn't access the internet as I did to look up some of the things she was saying) but also examined a trip between lives where she met her spiritual guide.

I too had a past life memory of being a native American, and while I was saying the things I said, I was convinced I was making them up. I was pretty specific about what I wore, who I was, and what happened to my tribe. I tried in vain to look these things up on the net - and I'm pretty good at finding evidence online. <snip> And I couldn't find anything about what I had seen.

And then I ran into a historian of this particular tribe at a family funeral back in Wisconsin. And he explained to me what the things were that I couldn't find, and they confirmed what I was saying about myself but couldn't believe.

It's not really that we have a past life - that's a given - we have many. The question is "why did you choose that past life? And why did you choose this current life? and what do the two have in common?"

I dont consider myself overly scientific but i do have to take such conditions into account before taking up a theory as a truth. It is interesting and i recall watching a documentary on tv about 25 years ago on the same subject which was pretty cool, though i forgot all about it until it was brought up here on sf.

It is interesting that those two people that recalled a past life together already had a link between them being Michael newtons work. Could i say that would point toward them both being part of his soul group that may be made up of the .0001 percentage of the population that he interviewed. In my way of thinking that leaves 99.9999 percent chance that the left over 99.999 percent of the population could be here for other reasons and that when you say "WE" you could be addressing a very small percentage of the population. That could be about 50 of the 5000 members on this website.

Could you entertain the thought that Newtons soul group is only 1 of 100 classrooms in the etherial world? Maybe his class likes to learn lessons from a sadomasochistic perspective where as the rest of us just choose to accept that the human instinct/ego has filthed up the earth and we have to wade through it to experience the good that earth has to offer. If not may i ask why?

For myself i have to say im with the other possible 99.9999 of the population that is not focussed on a cyclic balance of inflicting pain and experiencing suffering but are focussed on love, happiness and harmony but thats just me. Different strokes for different folks i suppose.

Originally Posted by Conaeolos

In meditation and dreams I can learn just as well as I do here in the physical, maybe more in some instances as there are no physical repercussions. Its like a life simulator where you dont die when you make a mistake or walk in to the path of a psychopath.
The very essence of karma is in dealing more with the consequences of our action or karma.

why hasnt spirit used one of the other realms as a simulator where souls wake up just before being abused but get the idea rather than spend up to 100 odd years broken with people teaching you wisdom that suggests that you deserve it or asked for it.
Who is to say they haven't? It simply isn't our realm..

Hi Conaeolos, I lived and studied Karma most of my life to the point where i became a life purpose coach as my eyes were blinded by its brilliance. It was wonderful, a truly profound reframe for the planet until the day i realised that if it is so easy for me to be the one experiencing negative Karma then i could just as easily be the one meant to deliver it to others. I have found that Karma can be very dangerous. History will show you that it is very reasonable to suggest that some unbalanced individuals have taken up this calling due to the voices in thier heads that told them to do evil things etc. The path can lead to evil deeds so i dont entertain it or share it anylonger for fear of that 1 person that will do harm in karma's name.

I do agree..no one can say that spirit doesnt have another realm that is like a simulator though why would those that are supposedly enlightened allow such suffering when there is a better alternative to learn about human nature? Maybe thats where the idea of the 1 of 100 classroom for those to learn sadomasochistic lessons comes in to play. I wonder how many of the innocent people that have come to earth for the positive experiences are being caught up in the crossfire and are suffering at the hand of this 1 classroom.

Could this 1 classroom be the ones that threw the first stone and started karma in the first place? I guess we will have to wait to find out hey and thanks for joining in.

Thanks everyone for helping me wade through this, i am learning from you all and i appreciate your time.

It was wonderful, a truly profound reframe for the planet until the day i realised that if it is so easy for me to be the one experiencing negative Karma then i could just as easily be the one meant to deliver it to others. I have found that Karma can be very dangerous. History will show you that it is very reasonable to suggest that some unbalanced individuals have taken up this calling due to the voices in thier heads that told them to do evil things etc. The path can lead to evil deeds so i dont entertain it or share it any longer for fear of that 1 person that will do harm in karma's name.
We can certainly agree there is no good that can come of justifying evil deeds through the guise that we are the divine hand of karma yet some of us still use it that way and that is dangerous.

why would those that are supposedly enlightened allow such suffering when there is a better alternative to learn about human nature?
Much like the question, "why would anyone be born a slave"?
We get a catch 22, only one who is suffering can answer yet only from being seen from outside can that experience have context.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is what we are really contrasting: was it our choice or are we forced/tricked by supposedly enlightened being(s)?

In this, it is my understanding that the most troubling aspect is, if it were our choice, that doesn't make sense because with the degree of suffering possible in this world, no one with any sense would choose to suffer and to say that it is part of some divine learning strips it of its abhorrence and skirts into a dress where these people are just masochists?

And certainly these people are not masochists. They are victims and suffering was not their will; indeed, evil by definition is suppression of the will. I think however it is easy for us to get caught up with contrasting the victim to the offender. Seeing how the victim's will was suppressed but seeing the offender as only willing. When in fact, both victim and offender are affected by suppression of the will. The victim yes by the offender but the offender, afflicted by the void of the will which then takes their desire and constructs acts to fill the un-fillable in the world through force.

Suffering is then not the intention of physical life at all but a byproduct of survival. By-product of the interwoven plain were the lambs live with the wolves. Learning does not come through this suffering only transcendence (willingness, acceptance, forgiveness, courage, love, etc.).

Going back however as to why not a dream classroom where we are without consequences, without the interwoven survival where the lamb must live with the wolf. Well that has all to do with transcendence. To transcend through vicarious living, is very difficult. Not impossible but very difficult. We have chosen an easier path, with the cost of experiencing suffering; however, because suffering is finite and will infinate, it is of little consequence once the underlying experience is released. As it is said "and the leopard shall lay with the goat".

Could this 1 classroom be the ones that threw the first stone and started karma in the first place?
Perhaps...

Maybe a slave is a participant that just came her to experience earth but was caught up in the middle of the karmic crossfire.

I dont know if we are forced or tricked though i would tend to think that if we infact do choose to come here that we may be aware that evil does exist on earth and we will have to wade our way through it to experience the joy that physical life can bring. This is my interpretation of the meaning of life. Im not here to hurt anyone or teach lessons or be taught lessons...im here to just "be" and be left alone to play with life and all sensations that it enables me to experience.

It is very true for me also that suffering is not the intention of physical life but quite the opposite. The instinctual ego that we possess to ensure that we look after these bodies is out of control and evil/suffering are mearly a by product. Ego is essential for survival and sustaining human life to ensure there are always bodies for more souls to come to the physical realm and enjoy the pleasures that earth has to offer. Its a simple idea that the relentless problem solving mind has made overly complex....in my opinion anyway.


I too dont believe that it makes any sense to choose to suffer having knowledge that it will be a "real experience", im not partial to pain and i only had to experience it once to know i didnt want to feel it again and avoid it in the future. The dream simulator classroom sounds good to me given that it would give you the experience but transcend the need to suffer for 80 odd years. I dont need 80 years to live and learn a lesson, im no Einstein though i do have bright moments if i may say so myself.



In general, I suppose we will not know what the facts are until we pass over though i suppose the ideas that we have tossed around here may inspire seekers to step out from the shadow of concepts that have been portrayed as spiritual truth over the years. I feel it is time to put the stones down and decide what sort of world we want to leave for our children as justifying suffering does not seem to be leading toward ending it and can be to the contrary as we have seen. There are some brilliant minds here on sf that could really change the world if they chose to step out of the boundaries they have chosen for themselves and challenge the concepts offered so far.

Originally Posted by res

Hi all,

I was just wondering why life purpose/karmic people have the idea that as spirits we choose to adopt a body so that we can come here and experience different emotions in forms of lessons.

What i cant understand is why would we need a physical body to understand emotions that are not physical in nature to begin with?

Cant those in spirit form feel emotion or recognise it enough that they wouldnt need to get a body and suffer for the most part here on earth?

If there is a cosmic consciousness that all/most/some can access then why would there be a need to come here to learn lessons that are already known by those that have lived on earth throughout the ages?

To be honest i have spent many years living and studying both these concepts and think they are off the mark though i am open to being convinced otherwise if anyone has the right answers.

Perhaps we come here because, in our willful ignorance, we don't want to learn at all.

So we descend here out of our own spite.

Originally Posted by Kismet

Perhaps we come here because, in our willful ignorance, we don't want to learn at all.

So we descend here out of our own spite.

Sounds interesting, would you mind expanding on your theory Kismet?

Originally Posted by res

I dont consider myself overly scientific but i do have to take such conditions into account before taking up a theory as a truth. It is interesting and i recall watching a documentary on tv about 25 years ago on the same subject which was pretty cool, though i forgot all about it until it was brought up here on sf.

It is interesting that those two people that recalled a past life together already had a link between them being Michael newtons work. Could i say that would point toward them both being part of his soul group that may be made up of the .0001 percentage of the population that he interviewed. In my way of thinking that leaves 99.9999 percent chance that the left over 99.999 percent of the population could be here for other reasons and that when you say "WE" you could be addressing a very small percentage of the population. That could be about 50 of the 5000 members on this website.

Could you entertain the thought that Newtons soul group is only 1 of 100 classrooms in the etherial world? Maybe his class likes to learn lessons from a sadomasochistic perspective where as the rest of us just choose to accept that the human instinct/ego has filthed up the earth and we have to wade through it to experience the good that earth has to offer. If not may i ask why?

For myself i have to say im with the other possible 99.9999 of the population that is not focussed on a cyclic balance of inflicting pain and experiencing suffering but are focussed on love, happiness and harmony but thats just me. Different strokes for different folks i suppose.

Hi Res,

Have been traveling, sorry I missed this post.

Actually the two people in question didn't have Newton in common. The man was in London, he had read Newton's first book, and he had already arranged a session with a Newton trained therapist in London when we spoke. After the session he wrote me about his session which included the detail of a life in Boston with this woman he knows from this life.

It was I who suggested doing a session with her - without her knowledge of Newton, or anything from his session. He's an Oxford professor, so agreed to the protocol. I arranged for a session with a therapist in NYC who knew nothing of the professor's session - she went to the session at the request of my friend, without knowing any of the details of the London session.

So they had nothing in common there. Only that they both remembered the same past life in Boston in 1840 married to each other.

As to the questions about classrooms - to be clear, Michael Newton is reporting what people say under deep hypnosis. They talk about the classrooms - and there are many of them. If you want to examine other people who've talked about classrooms in the afterlife, I can point you to James Van Praagh's "Talking to Heaven," or Galen Stollers' "My Life After Life" written by a boy who died, and is being channeled by his physician father. The son reports that he's attending various classes in the the afterlife, and the father confirmed for me that he nor his son had ever read of any accounts of classrooms in the afterlife.

I've personally filmed a number of sessions (including my own) where people visit these classrooms. There are any number of classes being taught - my research shows that they are all related to energy transfer - either through creating objects, moving objects, cleaning and clearing energetic fractals that travel with us through our lifetimes, or healing energies.

As funny as it sounds there are no negative reports from the afterlife. no bad classes or bad teachers. some pretty unusual classes (Galen Stoller's curriculum is mind blowing) but they're just that - reports of classes that we attend while in the afterlife.

Your question about pain is not related to the above. To answer that question specifically, <snip> people report that pain and anguish and sadness and guilt and all the other emotions associated with negative experiences, are limited to this realm, here on Earth.

For an analogy, think of Earth as a stage. Backstage we are pure, selfless, happy individuals who agree to take on roles, costumes, props in order to experience different energies that help us on our path through our many lives. And on stage we have all kinds of experiences that include pain, tragedy, anguish, negativity, etc - sometimes at other people's request, sometimes because we think we can master them - but they're choices that are almost always made in concert with others. And once we get to the end of that particular play, we take a bow, and return to the applause of our loved ones.

This has been reported over and over again in the research. <snip>

Edited by SF Staff

[fire]

I like your mindset, res; I think we have a similar perspective on the subjects in question. I trust my inner sense of knowing from the core of my being, and I've always felt a snarling anger emerge from that point, when someone presents a view that is dysfunctional to me. Call it an intuitive lie detector. My journey started out with many unsatisfying belief systems, as I would come across the same concept over and over again. It was a tainting process...but do I ever feel a righteousness emerge in that anger, when coming across a piece of information in resonance with me. I guess that's what one gets from being fostered on lies (previous lives, perhaps), while finally awakening to the truth.

I would say there are two levels of (emotional) suffering on this plane of existence. From that perspective, the first level would be action and consequence, which could be initiated from a simple drama between two or more beings. The second level would then be the aftermath of such an experience, when the lower vibrating emotions from the experience do not dissipate (unless fully experienced without suppression), and create what I personally term a karmic record in the soul. From that point, the soul is bounded to continuously encounter experiences that will create more of the clogged up emotions (because it's our nature as spirits to look away from pain).

Also, as a fellow truthseeker, I would say it's advisable to retain one's sense of reasoning for one's re-emerging to "the other side". "As above, so below". Isn't that what they say? From my understanding, our spirits already possess direct access to all knowledge in existence. Thus, if one cannot fully access one's spirit from "the other side", then one must still be immersed within a dimension of duality. Just a heads-up regarding after-life expectations.