Practice

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Yes that is really what is going on for you, masquerading as "caring". Thanks for revealing it in its full glory. All the more reason to take care that those attitudes should not ever get into positions of power.

I CARE about YOU! not your stinking philosophy NOR mine!

Most show their caring through love, I show mine through opening my heart, bearing all and being HONEST. You are more than welcome for giving me this opportunity to stop 'hiding' behind the mask of my intellect - COOL!

I wouldn't want to be in any position of 'power' ANYWAY!!! Can't you see? This isn't an ego-trip for me! It may look and sound like one, but I'm one of the only people on this earth able to get into an abusive, heated argument and keep my face like stone...keep my blood pressure and heart rate low and not get angry...sure, I may EMPHASISE words, but I'm as cool as a cucumber, pretty much always. =)

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Some seekers experience resonance with the concept All is One by the mind. What you know of thier experience to judge it is nothing.

Exactly. Resonance with the concept All is One is not the same as the realisation of the reality behind the concept.

Peace.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Quite true.

I think the notions of beginners and adepts is all imaginary in terms of the truth of yourself, and we have stories about being ripe as well, which are reasonable only in their metaphorical sense, but the central theme of these is story about self. BUT you are just as you are - not the memory of you nor the imagined future you - and the way you are now is 'the true state of consciousness'.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think the notions of beginners and adepts is all imaginary in terms of the truth of yourself, and we have stories about being ripe as well, which are reasonable only in their metaphorical sense, but the central theme of these is story about self. BUT you are just as you are - not the memory of you nor the imagined future you - and the way you are now is 'the true state of consciousness'.

Extracting and addressing this point:

…the way you are now is 'the true state of consciousness'.

Agreed, and so true Gem. How could it be otherwise?
And yet... at the same time, and by virtue of the same premise - that is rather the entire dilemma, the crux of the matter, the whole problem of human existence right there.

Who is this “you” so named?
By what means of cognition is this identity known?
Does this ‘you’ change, and if so, how so?
Can a human being seek to deliberately effect any concentration or acceleration of those means by an intelligent will intrinsic to human life toward that realization (i.e., devotion, discrimination, service, meditation, etc.)?

These questions, those that derive from them, and all their respective answers - are what each and every legitimate system of yoga (and even religion) - seeks, realizes, validates, and prescribes through both codified teaching, and importantly, its living teachers who do genuinely embody those principles.

Those various means, whether any teacher embodies them, and the methods by which they are effected, constitute the entire framework and purpose of 95% of discussion here.

Also, to add a 'wild card' into the mix, and to challenge any misguided crypto-dualists posing as NA proponents since this is the 'non-dual' forum...
Regarding this point which is quite significant:

I think the notions of beginners and adepts is all imaginary in terms of the truth of yourself, and we have stories about being ripe as well, which are reasonable only in their metaphorical sense, but the central theme of these is story about self.

It is both metaphorical as a general principle, but at the point of 'ripeness' for those specific cases of consequential preparedness, quite literal and inescapable as a possibility.

So the question of 'self' here is similar to the issue of 'you' in the above. Again, who is this 'self'?

Any human being so realized in that Oneness actually consciously embodies and has access to that oneness of Self, of all Being, who they are and know as a full subjective Identity, and therefore consciously and essentially are 'you' as well as a result. In that subjective Identity, but significantly within a mutually agreed teacher/student relationship, they are or represent both the realized 'you', may identify with the aspiring 'you' and importantly within in that context - they are the very means of that realization because in and through that oneness so consecrated, there is mutual free access to it - its purpose and means, one and the same in each - only in different forms.

This is the implication of Oneness in the dynamic physical multiplicity - but especially for those consciously seeking and practicing some form of yoga - and not simply dedicated to preserving a selectively speculative stillborn intellectual theory.


~ J

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by Gem

you are just as you are - not the memory of you nor the imagined future you.

This is true. But the seeker won’t viscerally grasp this until the seeker is open to it.

Openings seem to occur when the habitual dualistic projections of the mind are (at the very least, momentarily) dissolved or bypassed. Conditions that take us to the edge of our normalised, habituated outlook such as meditation, inquiry, existential crisis, trauma etc. often seem to be the correlate in the occurrence of this opening. Without this jolt or switch out of habitual mind, the recognition is unlikely to occur - let alone endure (though it could in some rare cases.)

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It's one thing to have the "One Spirit" experience with another person - another to have the "One Spirit" experience with the "Great Spirit" and know what is directly experienced in each other's hearts and minds at that point.

Iamit:

Does that mean you can sit in judgment of the quality of thier experience of the end of the spiritual search, of what that is like for them, and say that is not as full or blissful as yours? I think not

I wouldn’t say “sit in judgement” – but yes, one can discern to an extent.

The "One Spirit" experience with another person enables you to recognize whether the other person has awakened to/by the “Great Spirit” or not as yet - and this in turn enables you to see/witness whether they have also been initiated/empowered/graced by the Energy aspect of it.

But these people are usually “invisible” to the general onlooker.

Yet the whole situation is a totally "Open Secret”.

[Gem]

[quote=Moondance]This is true. But the seeker won’t viscerally grasp this until the seeker is open to it.

Openings seem to occur when the habitual dualistic projections of the mind are (at the very least, momentarily) dissolved or bypassed. Conditions that take us to the edge of our normalised, habituated outlook such as meditation, inquiry, existential crisis, trauma etc. often seem to be the correlate in the occurrence of this opening. Without this jolt or switch out of habitual mind, the recognition is unlikely to occur - let alone endure (though it could in some rare cases.)

Indeed, there is only a visceral existence now, and no one can help but know the truth of their immediate presence as the one who is now aware, alive, awake and knowing.

I think this rather obvious statement should be the fundamental basis of 'meditation' in the pure sense of that word, and all else be regarded as consequential. This makes practice a primary thing in and of itself, rather than a secondary activity undertaken as mere means to a desired primary end.

That isn't a slur against spiritual practice, It's just something to mention as a practice motivated by earnestness for the truth.

As an aside, 'different practices' are meritorious in their purposes, such as practicing to learn astral projection, for example - but I think it's important to distinguish between the 'pure meditation' and an undertaking to achieve desired ends.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sentient

Iamit:

I wouldn’t say “sit in judgement” – but yes, one can discern to an extent.

The "One Spirit" experience with another person enables you to recognize whether the other person has awakened to/by the “Great Spirit” or not as yet - and this in turn enables you to see/witness whether they have also been initiated/empowered/graced by the Energy aspect of it.

But these people are usually “invisible” to the general onlooker.

Yet the whole situation is a totally "Open Secret”.

So true! Nicely said.

So who am I? (for Jyotir, Gem and Moondance)

I am that which exists without ever having to think about who I am.

I'm that which doesn't associate myself with any aspect of internal identification, nor environmental relation.

Thus, whatever I do, I'm free to do it, in total liberation of that itself, without consideration of the perceptions and thoughts of another (this is why we are generally "invisible" to the general onlooker).

Some call it 'being yourself' and you also know that who 'you' are in the physical/mental sense is also totally flawed, but that doesn't matter....like it or lump it.

Others have expectations of us to be/do how and what they want, but I have learned that if being how another wants makes me feel uncomfortable with who I am, then that is not me 'being myself'.

I am that which is detached, observing that which I am, and the observer of the observer....all existing simultaneously.

I am the reflection of soul in the mirror tunnel of consciousness..each aspect reflects off the other into infinity and yet the mirrors of duality still exist.

The conversation I had with Iamit in this thread, goes to show, basically, how I'm not attached to anything in my head.

The only thing I'm 'attached' to is Shiva! Thus, I can think laterally on any subject and also adopt the opposing viewpoint - it is a technique I learned in the art of debating...a good debater should be able to put themselves within the mind of the opposition. I was always 3rd Speaker on my debating team. =)

The question "who am I"? isn't meant to really have an answer though! it is totally rhetorical! It's is meant to promote and promulgate the inner search until one discovers that answer for themselves.

They may stop at the level of "I am a person" and that is fine. They may stop at the level of "I am Oneness" and that is fine. They may stop at the level of "I am Satchidananda" and that is fine...or they will simply be like me; "who am I?" ..."I am ME"..."so who is that 'ME' that 'you' are?"....."why, that's still ME" and on and on it will go like this. lol

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by sentient

Iamit:

I wouldn’t say “sit in judgement” – but yes, one can discern to an extent.

The "One Spirit" experience with another person enables you to recognize whether the other person has awakened to/by the “Great Spirit” or not as yet - and this in turn enables you to see/witness whether they have also been initiated/empowered/graced by the Energy aspect of it.

But these people are usually “invisible” to the general onlooker.

Yet the whole situation is a totally "Open Secret”.

There may be conditioning that has been repressed affecting that. By definition you wont know about it.

[sentient]

One’s ‘default practice’ is dependent on what culture you come from.

Originally Posted by Gem

As an aside, 'different practices' are meritorious in their purposes, such as practicing to learn astral projection, for example -

Which reminds me of PNG.
So far I haven’t met a person from there for whom this isn’t a ‘default practice’.
You don’t practice it, it just happens.

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