Freedom - what does it entail?

[Ahriman]

Freedom means being allowed to do whatever you want to do, for better or worse. This might not result in sustainable models in terms of society but I feel as if Unlimited Freedom could become a practical reality, given the necessary advancement of technology.

[happy soul]

I feel that the following three views of true freedom are very significant.

If we're dependent on anything for our peace and happiness, we're not truly free. That seems to me like a Buddhist view of freedom. Attachment causes suffering when we can't have the thing we're attached to. Basically, addiction.

Another form of freedom is the expression of one's divine nature. If every choice is either born of love, or fear, then to choose love is to be free, and to choose fear is bondage. Love is what we are, therefore choosing love is freedom. Being what you really are is freedom.

Finally, freedom of mind is the capacity to think and feel (and even behave) without fear-based restrictions or self-imposed bondage. I knew a man once who said he couldn't feel anger. I took it that he was afraid of his anger and blocked it out. Sometimes people avoid thinking about certain things out of fear. Some people are afraid to feel love. Another form is the inability to think freely and objectively because of biases or an unwillingness to see the truth.

[happy soul]

double post

Originally Posted by Molearner

Oops, my reply to you was lost. When I copied my reply it instead pasted a reply of mine to a different posting!!! It was frustrating and my train of thought was lost. Very briefly I was referring to what I view as uncontrolled ego and its various programs. I agreed with the necessity of ego but its value is found only in moderation. Also, that in its worst form, it develops or presents an illusion that compels us to pursue idols as opposed to the divine. The shortcuts it offers become impediments to the spiritual path.

Perhaps that was the Universe's way of telling you to have a rethink

That would be close enough to how I view it although I'd stick with what you're saying as the 'contents' of the ego rather than the ego itself, it just makes more sense to me. People worshipping idols rather than the divine has been going on a long time, ever since God got seriously ticked with people worshipping the golden cow. Which brings me to the question. Very often people talk about things like freedom or perfection as 'objects' but doesn't that skew the perspective? Instead of asking "What does freedom entail?" does asking "What do we want freedom from?" create a parading shift?

If we had freedom from what we've stuffed into our egos - and that includes Spirituality and beliefs, etc - wouldn't that give us freedom from what's holding us back? In reference to what you said earlier, that would give us the freedom to make God's will and our will one and the same and also give us the understanding. It was also give us freedom from the inner conflict that I think so many are really looking for.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If we had freedom from what we've stuffed into our egos - and that includes Spirituality and beliefs, etc - wouldn't that give us freedom from what's holding us back? In reference to what you said earlier, that would give us the freedom to make God's will and our will one and the same and also give us the understanding. It was also give us freedom from the inner conflict that I think so many are really looking for.

***

And that sums it up nicely & precisely

***

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Perhaps that was the Universe's way of telling you to have a rethink

That would be close enough to how I view it although I'd stick with what you're saying as the 'contents' of the ego rather than the ego itself, it just makes more sense to me. People worshipping idols rather than the divine has been going on a long time, ever since God got seriously ticked with people worshipping the golden cow. Which brings me to the question. Very often people talk about things like freedom or perfection as 'objects' but doesn't that skew the perspective? Instead of asking "What does freedom entail?" does asking "What do we want freedom from?" create a parading shift?

If we had freedom from what we've stuffed into our egos - and that includes Spirituality and beliefs, etc - wouldn't that give us freedom from what's holding us back? In reference to what you said earlier, that would give us the freedom to make God's will and our will one and the same and also give us the understanding. It was also give us freedom from the inner conflict that I think so many are really looking for.

Greenslade,

Thanks for your reply. There is little to dispute with what you say...….a question of semantics, perhaps......re 'contents of ego' vs. simply 'ego'. I can accept this. I am reminded of a familiar example that is used in spiritual discussions. And it is that of an onion. As one peels away the layers of the onion(contents of the ego) the spiritual is revealed and accessed. The spiritual journey can then be viewed as a process of subtraction rather than being a process of addition.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

And that sums it up nicely & precisely

***

Thank you. I'm taking subscriptions and memberships for the fan club, don't be late or you'll miss your chance.

Originally Posted by Molearner

Greenslade,

Thanks for your reply. There is little to dispute with what you say...….a question of semantics, perhaps......re 'contents of ego' vs. simply 'ego'. I can accept this. I am reminded of a familiar example that is used in spiritual discussions. And it is that of an onion. As one peels away the layers of the onion(contents of the ego) the spiritual is revealed and accessed. The spiritual journey can then be viewed as a process of subtraction rather than being a process of addition.

Hey Mole

Semantics on the side that nail you've hit has a mother of a headache. It is an onion skin/subtraction but keep subtracting. Does Spirit do Spirituality? We are supposed to be the Universe working itself out, aspects of Source.... So are we on a 'Spiritual Journey? That's essentially what the Hindu Samadhi is, that stripping away of layers of Maya or false self.

If you like something with a bit more oomph... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z57LEvkmlb0

You have always been here, but you have to go there to realise that's not where you are.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Which brings me to the question. Very often people talk about things like freedom or perfection as 'objects' but doesn't that skew the perspective? Instead of asking "What does freedom entail?" does asking "What do we want freedom from?" create a parading shift?

If we had freedom from what we've stuffed into our egos - and that includes Spirituality and beliefs, etc - wouldn't that give us freedom from what's holding us back? In reference to what you said earlier, that would give us the freedom to make God's will and our will one and the same and also give us the understanding. It was also give us freedom from the inner conflict that I think so many are really looking for.

Greenslade,

I neglected to respond to this portion of your reply earlier. This is, essentially, the point I was suggesting in my initial posting. One can have freedom of religion or freedom from religion, freedom of thought or freedom from thought(all those things that drive us crazy) and freedom of choice or freedom from choice. To consider what freedom really means it are these aspects that warrant thoughtful attention.

[Molearner]

For fans of Meister Eckhart;

"All true morality, inward and outward, is comprehended in love, for love is the foundation of all the commandments.
All outward morality must be built upon this basis, not on self-interest. As long as man loves something else than God, or outside God, he is not free, because he has not love. Therefore there is no inner freedom which does not manifest itself in works of love. True freedom is the government of nature in and outside man through God; freedom is essential existence unaffected by creatures. But love often begins with fear; fear is the approach to love: fear is like the awl which draws the shoemaker's thread through the leather.