Empty your mind

[peteyzen]

I see what you are saying Gem, In the tradition of meditation I was taught, there were two distinct types, the first Dharana was like you are describing above, it was where one sits and deeply contemplates. Which brings about the sort of results you describe. The other meditation is known as Dhyana and is the focal meditation I was describing.
For me I find Dhyana to be my preferred method, I see all kinds of distractions in Dhrana. For me the contemplation methods are just thinking processes and when we get wrapped up in thought we go in circles quite often. The silence for me works better, I find insights come and then I let them go or try to lol, unless they are really interesting and I get distracted by them !!! bad pete!

[Gem]

Originally Posted by peteyzen

I see what you are saying Gem, In the tradition of meditation I was taught, there were two distinct types, the first Dharana was like you are describing above, it was where one sits and deeply contemplates. Which brings about the sort of results you describe. The other meditation is known as Dhyana and is the focal meditation I was describing.
For me I find Dhyana to be my preferred method, I see all kinds of distractions in Dhrana. For me the contemplation methods are just thinking processes and when we get wrapped up in thought we go in circles quite often. The silence for me works better, I find insights come and then I let them go or try to lol, unless they are really interesting and I get distracted by them !!! bad pete!

I learned in the tradition of focus, but then in my own investigations I found there's more to it through the mind/body connection, and the effect of this, not the purpose, has a psychological/emotional healing effect. How that may unfold for different people would be their own trip, but the fundamental 'operation' would be pretty much the same. Over time I learned a difference between a wandering mind and a wild mind, as one is at peace with their wandering mind, and actually not distracted, but since one is very interested in the process it is going through, they remain highly aware of it. In this way a meditation might be a breath focus, for example, if the mind is all agitated, but when its calm it can go exploring itself without disturbing me in the slightest, and I am not at all distracted and remain completely conscious of its movement. After a time watching whatever this all go on, I might become disinterested and return to my breathing, but that same alertness of attention is still there.

On the other hand if the mind is wild and agitated, I'd just keep it coming to the breath until it becomes calm and alert.

This to me is the difference between a 'quiet mind' and a 'wild mind'. But a quiet mind can process thought without any disturbance to its peacefulness in just the same way it can be quietly aware of the breath.

The mind really doesn't stay with the breath. It is forever wandering away, and oftentimes I'm like, do whatever you want, mind, it really makes no difference to me whatsoever.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought there might be more to it than just emptying your mind, considering our conditioning, false views and so forth, so I wondered if anyone would be interested in a bit a deep and meaningful on this subject.

This thread reminds me of a saying I once heard in a kung fu movie:

To fill a cup, one must empty her first.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Serrao

This thread reminds me of a saying I once heard in a kung fu movie:

To fill a cup, one must empty her first.

I thought it would be interesting to go into a more complex discussion on a broader, deeper perspective of what it means to empty the mind.

[r6r6]

Empty the Mind = Quiet the Mind i.e. less mental activity?

Ancient asian pacific religion was based around wind and currents ergo go with the flow. If your mind goes this way then go with it, if it goes that way then go with it.

Pay attention to the mind is what were really after. Paying attention to how consciousness irrespective of the way it flows,k we first have to be aware of its flowing and where it flows, how it responds to the environment and make nesccessary adjustments as needed.

Watching the mind-at-play, so to speak. So to speak to our self of what we observe.

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...ain-death3.htm
Deep Coma vs Vegatable State
..."The individual in the vegetative state has a lot more lower-brain function, and a bit more upper brain-stem function, than a patient in deep coma."......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sleepdex.org/stages.htm
..."Stages 3 and 4 are referred to as deep sleep or delta sleep, and it is very difficult to wake someone from them. In deep sleep, there is no eye movement or muscle activity.
.....This is when some children experience bedwetting, sleepwalking or night terrors. In 2008 the sleep profession in the US eliminated the use of stage 4. Stages 3 and 4 are now considered stage 3.".....
r6

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought it would be interesting to go into a more complex discussion on a broader, deeper perspective of what it means to empty the mind.

What does one gain by emptying the mind?

Is it needed to attain enlightenment?

Or is it just handy in daily life?

[redstone]

Originally Posted by Serrao

What does one gain by emptying the mind?

Is it needed to attain enlightenment?

Or is it just handy in daily life?

I don't think its a gain, it just seems a natural consequence of the purifying of meditation, the quieter the mind gets, then those past incidents or life experience bubble up to the surface.

is enlightenment an attainment?

I think it's handy in daily life not to be so taken up by things that usually irritate you or agitate you.

[redstone]

Originally Posted by Gem

Right, r6, I notice if I don't take care of menial business, leaving things undone, they play on my mind, so perhaps much of it is very simple mundane things, such as having some order and organisation about you, so that the 'little things' don't pile up and become mental distractions.

Of course there are life problems, and when dealing with interpersonal tensions and what have you, the mind can become preoccupied with all sorts of dilemmas.

In that this about the mind, it has to do with meditation, but I'm not one to instruct method and technique apart from just talking about it, but in the sense of general mindfulness and self awareness, like, we gotta be honest with ourselves. I mean, how can there even be a meditation in the absence of the truth?

In the sense of mental activity and emotion, I would have extend this to the sensation of the body, because the emotions particularly are manifest in the bodily tensions, and the thoughts we might have also affect the emotional content. Of course if the body is in pain, the mind may enter a reactive state which occupies the mind.

I considered that a human being's behaviour is largely determined by the past. For example childhood trauma often becomes a determinant of an adult's thoughts, feelings and behaviours. Perhaps a heart break as a youth effects the relationships in later life. Possibly being bullied, teased, derided, neglected, abused, tortured, subjected to war, and all these sorts of things are not in fact emptied, but held as trauma to varying degrees in the psyche.

If a skilled meditator does go into that emptiness and expanse, we might call that the empty mind, but upon returning to the everyday senses and the mind, that person they are, the 'contents' return just as one left them.

The emptying, then, I thought, would also apply to the resolution and dissolution of mental contents that stem from events of the past, and continue to determine the thoughts, feelings and behaviours in our lives today.

What I found interesting was those tightly wound balls of thought you spoke of is they don't seem to be impacted by any insights gained long after these life experiences happened.
it's only when the mind has been quietened somewhat that they pop up...like the tennis ball held under water by the weight of the contents on top you mentioned! which seems to imply that gravity is involved in there somewhere maybe the heavier the trauma the more it gets buried...and its going to be one of the last things to pop up when everything else has come to the surface.

Anyway...I mentioned that these traumas dont seem to be impacted by insights gained long after they happened, it seems only to able to be undone or unwravel when it surfaces to awareness and insight gained since then which undoes it...but it must unwravel under its own tensional energy...I heard you say once that it's like an elastic band unwinding, thats how these locked balls of past historical energy seem to appear to me to unwind....and I think it's just a natural part of our conditioning unfolding and unwinding due to the purifying process of meditation.

thats my eyeball on it anyway.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by redstone

What I found interesting was those tightly wound balls of thought you spoke of is they don't seem to be impacted by any insights gained long after these life experiences happened.
it's only when the mind has been quietened somewhat that they pop up...like the tennis ball held under water by the weight of the contents on top you mentioned! which seems to imply that gravity is involved in there somewhere maybe the heavier the trauma the more it gets buried...and its going to be one of the last things to pop up when everything else has come to the surface.

Anyway...I mentioned that these traumas dont seem to be impacted by insights gained long after they happened, it seems only to able to be undone or unwravel when it surfaces to awareness and insight gained since then which undoes it...but it must unwravel under its own tensional energy...I heard you say once that it's like an elastic band unwinding, thats how these locked balls of past historical energy seem to appear to me to unwind....and I think it's just a natural part of our conditioning unfolding and unwinding due to the purifying process of meditation.

thats my eyeball on it anyway.

I think that moment when it suddenly 'fits together' is the moment when the whole complexity of it is understood in a flash of insight. For some reason, that seeing of the whole of it is also a release, as if merely being aware of the big picture resolves the entire thing at once. It may have some residual energy which plays out, but the investment in it, the compulsion to act on it, it's control over you, desists, and that which once was wound tightly becomes a completely coherent passage of thought, which also completes its passage.

[pdizzle45]

Focusing on the moment, not past or future, but this moment, is how I keep my mind clear. Once you can learn to live the moment, it is easier to clear the mind of negative thinking.