If God is an Infinite Being who else is there?

[JustBe]

Creation is an interweaving, interconnected process, what you ‘think you see’ and what you cannot see within the whole is what forms the moment through a whole unfolding arrangement. Imagining a new creation comes through what has been, is and potentials within the whole. Potentials flow through the whole, much like what is,in the totality of the whole. There are so many unfolding interweaving creations. Nothing moves alone, everything flows & unfolds as one, even as we ‘think’ it’s ’ours alone’ ‘consciousness births itself as consciousness’ ‘consciousness is birthing infinitely’. A continuous cycle of creation. Nothing stands alone. Is consciousness nothing? Creation that flows from consciousness might be perceived as something in its ‘purest’ form, not influenced by the ‘whole’ but the whole is what influences creation each sbd every moment.

Recreating anew is simple rebirthing what is, as things are, as life’s creations are at any given moment. See more, know more, create more, recreate anew and differently. The underlying fabric of creation doesn’t change, it is and has always been.

Everything birthed if looked at and through an infinite potential of creation doesn’t mean that god or consciousness is only in part, of this creation. it simply means in our inability to see the whole, we create our own ideas about what all the differing pieces mean. But as one source, creation birthed from consciousness without our ideas about new, old, good, bad, without ideas of limitation and bounded identities you begin to see the whole moving through as a infinite continuum.

You see yourself as creation and where and how you create from. The more open you are to see the whole as it is, you begin to see nothing is separate, everything is connected and infinite potentials in every moment exist, even as we cannot always see them. Consciousness is everything. I can communicate with the pegs on my clothes line if I choose too and receive life changing responses. The creation of a peg cannot seperate consciousness or god, unless I separate it, much like any life form or creation. How I am identifying, choosing the story to be, is either contained by external beliefs, or unbounded from within myself, which then opens the mind beyond itself.

[lotusmind]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The difficulty is agreeing what we mean by the Christ/the Guru/the Messiah.

Perhaps although i don't have a single difficulty here. The Bhagavad Gita verse 4.34 lucidly explains why the Self cannot liberate itself.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Are we referring to some historical figure who lived on Earth some time in the past? So how exactly do they help us now?

Yes Christ was a historical figure and a Guru. And as he said he will return. Which refers to the parampara or the disciplic succession that remains intact to this day and the Christ the Messiah the Anointed One has returned in the form of Guru.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Or are we referring to some such figure currently incarnate? Where do we find such a teacher? If such a teacher is on Earth they seem very well hidden.

Definitely very well hidden. In fact most never even grasp why the very mind cannot liberate one from its own incarceration therefore most remain in logical loops of circular reasoning holding onto beliefs they believe to be true because they believe them to be true.

Originally Posted by iamthat

And yes, there are many gurus around, and those who follow such gurus usually regard their particular guru as the Satguru, the true guru, the most direct way to God-realisation.
If they did not regard their guru as the highest then they would be out looking for a different guru.

A tree is known by the fruit it bears. I am not interested in who declares who 'satguru'. I am interested in the tangible experience exhibited by Guru that i perceive and the 'fruits' they exhibit (compassion/kindness/mercy/tolerance etc).

Originally Posted by iamthat

Or can we say that the Christ or the true guru is within? The direct route to God is through the birth of the Christ Consciousness within, the inner Guru.

No we cannot. At least not from the dvaita vedanta viewpoint. The true Guru is a living master who walks amongst the conditioned liberating them and giving salvation. One cannot free themselves from sin and the human mind by simply claiming "i am free". Again why that occurs is mentioned in Bhagavad Gita 4.34. God chooses to be known through his chosen One.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Any outer gurus may teach us until we reach the point where we are ready to follow the inner Guru, the guidance of our own Higher Self.

The satguru is never abandoned even when the disciple attains enlightenment.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Nisargadatta says something like the inner Guru is the only Satguru because they are with us every step of the way, from the beginning of the journey to full realisation.

With full respect to Nisargadatta my Guru never taught this so i will stick to his teachings. He explained that the nature of avidya ignorance is so deep especially in the Kali Yuga that to clear it requires a living Guru physically manifest in this mortal world. I could elaborate but won't unless interested.

Peace[/quote]

namaste

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Any outer gurus may teach us until we reach the point where we are ready to follow the inner Guru, the guidance of our own Higher Self.

Nisargadatta says something like the inner Guru is the only Satguru because they are with us every step of the way, from the beginning of the journey to full realisation.

I agree simply because I’ve never had a living guru but the inner guidance was always there at all times, in the shape of crystal clear telepathic communications and lucid wisdom downloads. The entire kundalini activation process was guided by the master’s invisible hand.

The master first appears and then disappears possibly because all manifest forms must vanish for realisation, which is basically about dropping the ego or identity. We may say that the seeker who seeks does not exist. In other words, we ourselves are the blockage. It is for this reason that thought rested meditation is advocated in all ‘schools of learning’. Sans thought, ego dies and then the light of Self is revealed to our inner eye.

At a basic level, if we look at Hindu scriptures, it speaks of Jiva* (*us, here now), Atma (soul or Self though in my view there is a difference) and Paramatma (God). The idea is to become a jivanmukta* (*liberated while alive), which occurs by grace of course but grace touches only those who vaporise the ego through continuous surrender of the ‘little this’ to the ‘all that’.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

The entire kundalini activation process was guided by the master’s invisible hand.

The master first appears and then disappears possibly because all manifest forms must vanish for realisation, which is

continuous surrender of the ‘little this’ to the ‘all that’.

I relate to this..
I think for any of us that’s been guided by the invisible hand as I have, there is a process of moving beyond that hand into integrating being as all that. Do we look back at life through that stream as ‘it’ or deepen and let go to know it was just that, a guiding hand, to know yourself, as ‘all that’.. the guide is moving you closer to what you are, what thise activations within are revealing as yourself.

[Goldcup7]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think God's creations would not be God. In the same way, if I make a robot or a sculpture or build a house, or write a book, design an organization, make a law, build a business, it would not be me.

Consider planet Earth. All the different animals here, the plants, minerals and gases that the planet continually creates are made by the planet, made of the planet. All are made from the body of Earth. It's always changing but remaining the same.

When a human creates a form such as a sculpture, really it is Earth creating a form that creates a form, all within itself. The human perspective may be separate, but the bigger picture is of one whole.

[Goldcup7]

For me there is no real inner or outer. Inner guru, outer guru, world, Self, God are the same One. Practically speaking though, from the perspective of the seeker, I'd say the outer guru points inwards, the inner guru pulls inwards, towards that innermost place, the Kingdom of Heaven within, where there is neither inside nor outside. Where all is known to be Guru, Self, God, or rather, what is is What Is.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Maisy
I think God's creations would not be God. In the same way, if I make a robot or a sculpture or ... it would not be me.

You are right! But, you are thinking as a human...shame on you, , kidding.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Creating something new means imagining something that has never existed before. It literally has to come from nothing because if it is already designed and known it is not a new creation at all. It already existed in some way.

My understanding is that, it is not about what already physically exists as physical form/the what is. It is all about the conditioned mind and ego mentally giving physical forms names and having thoughts about physical forms that create or give physical forms subjective and abstract mental forms that are seperate and/or different from the physical forms and their existence.