Basic Reasons: Breath Meditation

[Gem]

Since the conversation about breath had started, and will continue as it has done for thousands of years, I decided to make this thread so as to invite such continual discussion.

I wish to give actual reasons as to why the practice is as it is, and not be distracted by teachers, suttas and age old systems. Using such modes of authority to coerce people into blindly accepting the meditation technique is fundamentally unethical.

Giving reasons enables people to discern what seem sensible, and decide for themselves if it's suitable or not, and enabling self determined and uninfluenced decisions is the only way to approach people with the proper respect and integrity.

This is the reason why I do not tell anyone what to do, and I make it absolutely clear that I'm not an authority who can be believed. I can only say the practice is this way, and then explain why that is. All else is beyond me.

I hope my opening post seems interesting, sounds reasonable and makes a bit of sense. Thank You.

Gem,

Thanks for the thread. Look forward to hearing your experiences and those of others as well!

-TaoSandwich

[sunsoul]

What are the suttas based on? Is there anything wrong in listening to masters as well as using your own experience? What exactly is unethical? That is quite a strong term you are using there to be fair.

It seems less of a thread on breath meditation and more a thread on Gem's view of breath meditation and what it should be!

[Gem]

This isn't a superficial subject. It is extremely subtle, and as such, it isn't as simple as 'do this method, because this is why'.

What is really boils down to is inquiring into what meditation is, and if one can do that, there's no need to ask how to meditate, or why.

Even prior... the meditation really starts before one sits on the cushion and assumes a pretentious posture, makes a ridiculous sound or enters arbitrary visualisations that they can call 'meditation'.

There are all these traditions from India and suttas that presume Buddha's teaching, new age video bloggers, hot sexy yoga, lots of petals and incense - and all of that - but the enlightenment is in every one of us, and is not in a figure in our minds we call an 'enlightened person' or a 'master' or a 'guru'... these clung to illusions are pitiful distractions from the highest truth that doesn't come from a dead guy who everyone is trying interpret, well constructed internet sites, not from someone with an Indian name that I can't pronounce, not from the religions, no. It is from the most pristine honesty and unadulterated integrity that upholds the very highest, and most pure, truth within yourself

It is not a spiritual Truth someone knows and will lead you to. It's a simple honesty about how life is being lived - such as - am I sleeping right, eating healthy, remaining sober, smoking, and so on... how are my habits and behaviours detrimental to my well-being, myself and others, and what is my truest voice telling me in regards to them, and am I really following that highest truth? How then, after this inquiry, can I fairly, honestly and reasonably say that my life is imbued with the integrity that is required to live according to my highest truth?

This very high ethic is necessary, and one must approach the endeavour with complete and absolute truthfulness, and be prepared to live by it, so this new year, let it be the resolution. It is for the best.

Many Thanks

Gem

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

What are the suttas based on? Is there anything wrong in listening to masters as well as using your own experience? What exactly is unethical? That is quite a strong term you are using there to be fair.

It seems less of a thread on breath meditation and more a thread on Gem's view of breath meditation and what it should be!

I am disinterested in assertions pertaining to myself or other people, and because of that tone, I don't believe your questions are authentic inquiries.

[jonesboy]

What if someone can't watch there breath "as is" without controlling it?

What is the difference between watching your breath and watching your thoughts? I am talking in the long run as a practice.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

What if someone can't watch there breath "as is" without controlling it?

What is the difference between watching your breath and watching your thoughts? I am talking in the long run as a practice.

If a person can notice the breath is there, they can also observe it. It might not be as easy as one might think, and perhaps requires a little persistence, but I never met a single person ever who can not do it.

I can comment on watching thoughts, but does this refer to the internal dialogue which spontaneously or habitually arises, or does it refer to volitionally concocted thoughts such as mantra or visualisation? I'm not quite sure what you mean?

[sunsoul]

Awareness of breath is one meditation technique. If this particular method doesn't seem to work for you then there are others (like the Zen method of concentrating on a point on the wall, for example).

Really, the method isn't so important as much as finding a way to effectively calm the mind and bring about some peace..

Watching your thoughts as in being caught up in the chain of thoughts is the opposite of meditation.. As you just get caught up in endless chains of thought. It is quite natural to be distracted, though. Then it is simply a matter of returning your focus to the breath or spot on the wall...

[jonesboy]

I would agree with everything you said except the part about mindfulness of thoughts being the opposite of meditation. If you go to any tibetan buddhist temple to learn meditation. They will teach you mindfulness meditation that goes through the 4 phases.

Mindfulness is an attentive awareness to the way things are in the present moment.
There are 4 different frames of reference for practicing mindfulness meditation…
Mindfulness of the body,
Mindfulness of physical feelings and sensations,
Mindfulness of mental states and
Mindfulness of consciousness.


This is examination of the body‘s composite nature. It is a mentally noting, focusing and exploring of the component parts of the body such as head hair, skin, teeth, muscles, bones heart, stomach etc. The practice is focusing on what they are, where they are, what are they dependent on, what they do, how they feel, etc. Focus on each part and study it, you may find that the object itself occurs as an image to you or becomes more apparent in another way. Focus on the breathing is also mindfulness of the body.

Mindfulness of the Body

A further aspect to study is physical characteristics. Feel and inquire into the solidity/liquidity, temperature and motion characteristics of specific aspects of the body. Another aspect to study is the movement and how it reacts and interacts with events, tiredness and muscle tension and other phenomena. The body struggles against a lot of physical experiences, but without the mind, its just a senseless and inactive lump of skin, meat and bones.

Mindfulness of Physical Feelings and Sensations

This is a noting of the physical feelings and sensations that are experienced in the human body. You can note whether a feeling is pleasant, unpleasant or neutral and study how the mind and body is acting and interacting with these feelings. A similar method that applies to both first two body focused foundations is a form of body scanning, scanning the body up and down to examine sensations and then letting them go to pass onto another part of the body. The skill is not only to gain tolerance of the body and understanding of its nature, but to mentally let go of the stress that arises and learn how to relax the body to reduce tension.

Mindfulness of Mental States

This covers thoughts, fantasies, ideas, dreams and images etc. The focus is to watch how they arise and change and how they arise dependent on feelings or outside impulses or the amount of concentration you have. You can note "I'm suddenly thinking about this" or "this thought has changed into this". Here is an opportunity to study the value or benefit of thoughts and themes. The other aspect of this practice is learning to let go of these mental experiences. It is important to remember not to indulge in the mental states, follow fantasies or get lost in dreams. The point is to come to a personal understanding of how the mind and the processes of thinking work through persistent study and gentle analysis.

Mindfulness of Consciousness

This frame of references includes being mindful of tiredness or energetic states, focused or unfocused states, feeling peaceful or anxious etc. Is the mind being dominated by feelings such as greed or anger? Is the mind wanting or rejecting something? These are all things you can look for to give you an awareness of your state of consciousness. Studying consciousness with relation to mental states is particularly interesting because it shows how our state of consciousness affects our thoughts and fantasies. If there are feelings of tiredness, the person may experience thoughts or feelings of depression, but if the mind is energetic, it could make the mind bright and happy. If there is manic consciousness the mind may be unable to focus on one thing and constantly bouncing from one thing to the next and if there is depressed consciousness the mind may be filled with long brooding thoughts. The skill is to temper or gently change the state of the consciousness by introducing compassion when feeling depressed, goodwill when feeling angry or appreciation when feeling dis-satisfaction etc.

* Or you can try to be/reside in awareness.

If a person can notice the breath is there, they can also observe it. It might not be as easy as one might think, and perhaps requires a little persistence, but I never met a single person ever who can not do it.

It is a very known problem with observing the breath. Especially for beginners. That is why you have lessons on long breath, short breath, etc...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sunsoul

Awareness of breath is one meditation technique. If this particular method doesn't seem to work for you then there are others (like the Zen method of concentrating on a point on the wall, for example).

There's no reason given for either breath or the wall.

Really, the method isn't so important as much as finding a way to effectively calm the mind and bring about some peace..

Watching your thoughts as in being caught up in the chain of thoughts is the opposite of meditation.. As you just get caught up in endless chains of thought. It is quite natural to be distracted, though. Then it is simply a matter of returning your focus to the breath or spot on the wall...

OK, so observing thoughts may well lead getting caught up in them. I can see how that might happen. Seems reasonable. Doesn't seem dogmatic even though you contradict many reputable teachers from well established schools and the many who practice that way. Doesn't sound like preaching because you explained some reason so that I don't have to believe you. That's all I do, too.