True Self?

The ideas of true self aren't something that grabs me...but what I notice here shepard is your ugness...the ugness of tired frustration perhaps. And honestly, if you are feeling that way, then it may be time for you to take a break and spend a little time working with yourself and to recouperate your energy and desire for change.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by hybrid

when you say we can change, is the improved version of our self make the the wife beating ma the same man or he can acquire a new title, say a loving responsible man?

He's the same man but his title can change.
His vices and virtues are more like verbs instead of nouns.

Yes the qualities are part of the self and define the self in a way. But still these are all illusions as they can change. The qualities can't exist by themselves.

One could say the self is a thing or an entity that undergoes various state changes,
or these various state changes are in fact the self.

The ideas of true self aren't something that grabs me...but what I notice here shepard is your ugness...the ugness of tired frustration perhaps. And honestly, if you are feeling that way, then it may be time for you to take a break and spend a little time working with yourself and to recouperate your energy and desire for change.

I would sit back and really have a good think Heather as to why you posted your assumptions about me on this thread. it just makes for ugly reading and I have no idea what your agenda is, so please respect this thread and keep it out, if you wish to be personal then please use the pvt message system. Thank you.

One could say the self is a thing or an entity that undergoes various state changes,
or these various state changes are in fact the self.

I have to agree with this so far.

I'm just not convinced there is an actual true self. The idea of a true self just promotes an idea which may not actually be able to be reached as when would someone know when? It just seems to promote non acceptance of who we are right now. (though the true self is always our self)

Originally Posted by shepherd

I would sit back and really have a good think Heather as to why you posted your assumptions about me on this thread. it just makes for ugly reading and I have no idea what your agenda is, so please respect this thread and keep it out, if you wish to be personal then please use the pvt message system. Thank you.

Sorry that youve taken it poorly, it was given with the best will in the world xx

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

He's the same man but his title can change.
His vices and virtues are more like verbs instead of nouns.

Yes the qualities are part of the self and define the self in a way. But still these are all illusions as they can change. The qualities can't exist by themselves.

One could say the self is a thing or an entity that undergoes various state changes,
or these various state changes are in fact the self.

you depicted a self that is dynamic. in lieu of this, can we be just ourselves without having to resort to label as true, false, higher, lower, god , ego, good, evil selves as shepherd suggested?

.

Sorry that youve taken it poorly, it was given with the best will in the world xx

It's not about being taken poorly Heather, its your perceptions of me which are personal and don't really need to be on this thread. I don't know if this is something you do to others but it just seems out of place and uncalled for regardless of intentions. Hence why I say sit back and have a real good think.

you depicted a self that is dynamic. in lieu of this, can we be just ourselves without having to resort to label as true, false, higher, lower, god , ego, good, evil selves as shepherd suggested?

Did I suggest that? Not sure I did but its a brilliant question Hybrid, can we?

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by shepherd

I have to agree with this so far.

I'm just not convinced there is an actual true self. The idea of a true self just promotes an idea which may not actually be able to be reached as when would someone know when? It just seems to promote non acceptance of who we are right now. (though the true self is always our self)

of course there is no actual true self, these are maps or models of consciousness or of human psyche. if what is your concern as a therapist who believes that self acceptance is the key to healing the self, then such concepts as true/false selves impedes the healing process rather that help, yes you may be right.

these ideas are rather philosophical in nature and wouldn't probably useful in a clinical scenario.

.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by shepherd

Did I suggest that? Not sure I did but its a brilliant question Hybrid, can we?

this is what you said ....

what if its just a "self" and the labels we give it are just judgements based on what we think is right or wrong