Anattā (no self)

[sky]

Originally Posted by sentient
In Hinayana Buddhism one seeks enlightenment to enter Nirvana.
Is that right?



Realizing rather than seeking. I think of it as being a ' Happening ' rather than a doing.


" Marvelous, marvelous! All sentient beings have the Tathāgata’s wisdom and virtue, but they fail to realize it because they cling to deluded thoughts and attachments."

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Do you mean you choose to think about uncomfortable memories from the past?
That sounds interesting.



Are you making your own ice cream? I've never heard of that flavor of ice cream. I'm not even sure where I could get a hold of boysenberries if I had an ice cream maker. I don't eat any dairy anymore.... but I could make soy or coconut milk ice cream.

No I don’t choose uncomfortable memories, more clear out any feelings that might arise in the face of uncomfortable experiences. The memories may not enter my mind through those feelings. It’s just saying, there is still emotional reaction, so I tend to it, aware it might just be threads. Let it go...

I usually eat coconut I scream. ( spell check makes for a different i scream lol )

You could make blueberry/raspberry I scream.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon 7luminaries

Sorry, didn't see you up there talking to daz.

As for this, "So if a master (let's say Michael -- or an ascended master of your choice) were to ask you right now, how's your practice going?...how would you respond right now? "

There would be no point, they already know

Hahaha...Hello there muffin - how are you doing?
Well perhaps they do then :)
Ad so perhaps it's also about meeting their humanity one to another and giving that other person the space to share.
And in sharing, to both know that they matter and they are heard in the most intrinsic sense of these things.
And in sharing, likewise, there is the opportunity to take ownership as well and to acknowledge that in front of another (i.e., to act with integrity).

Quite a bit of key stuff there, really...simply in this innocent little ask and share

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Thankyou.

I was hoping you might explain it from your own direct experience?

Hello JustBe I don't think the craving of the physical pleasures is a huge one for me but I'm not a gent this go round so you have to remember all of these experiences are fundamentally different. I do recall that as a gent in past lives of course I struggled with abstinence and right-aligned behaviour. I was a randy cad my first life as a gent and then after that I primarily was concerned with treating others honourably and for myself, striving for my own standards of what was moral and ethical. It was difficult. I learnt an important lesson for myself, which was that whilst I craved touch as a man, and I felt emotional pain in denying myself some things (no sex without meaningful, right-aligned attachment (authentic love), and no porn), I craved my own self-respect and the repect of those I loved and valued more than I craved touch or avoidance of pain. When I denied myself and felt some pain or lack, I accepted it. I learned to accept it and be ok with it. It was my right-aligned friend and fellow traveller -- it pointed the way on the path to what was true and right, to those times and places where a mutual authentic love and commitment to one another's highest good was present. Where I could have that touch and that love without compromising my honour or anyone else's. Importantly, I lived as a man in times where other men (brothers, best mates, family) could and did show real affection for one another, which is IMO a serious failure of modern western society. What author Mark Greene calls the "gentle, platonic touch" -- the simple, loving, non-sexual touch that all humanity crave and require to be well, sound, and fully human.

In this lifetime, I don't crave substances aside from protein, fat, carbs (in that order, LOL) and caffeine. I don't really crave material "stuff" but I do crave some stuff. I suppose we all crave more free time and agency I crave meaning, presence, brain and soul food. Time outdoors in nature - I actually do crave that in the true sense, as in I need it badly. So I try to be or provide these things for myself and to share these things with others.

I have no compulsion whatsoever to trade my desire for meaning and presence for sex so I find modern "partner" relationships to be a non-starter. They are generally overwhelming lacking in presence...or, deeply avoidant of sustained presence...and thus will reliably seek to lead with or rest on barter, leverage, power and predation. Friendships, deep and true friendships, are much easier and far less coercive, utilitarian, dehumanising, and predatory, in my experience. I don't need anything that isn't authentic and freely offered and without coercive demands for sex and servitude without a proper foundation of personal lovingkindness and reliable presense (a commitment in some meaningful sense). Nor do I want or desire anything I haven't come to know deeply and personally over time. And that's the real kicker...not being afraid to show up over time and not being afraid to authentically be who you are (warts, fears, shortcomings, and all), in the presence of others.

The other two are more difficult. Being and non-being. Being. I never feared death and have risked my life for others many times. I used to wonder why I lacked a normal fear response for myself. Perhaps it was my upbringing but no matter what I was dealt, I always had a sense of being unbreakable in spirit, and that made me secretly fearless. I also remembered something of my past lives early, disturbing as that was. I never felt this was a one-shot deal. Many do and they are terrified of non-being after physical death.

Of course, having a child, I came to truly understand the need to be as fully present as possible (which can be a struggle for those who don't always ground as naturally in the physical/sensory), due to an equally strong desire to see your child grow up. I had always believed in committing to a sustainable path. I voted and spent time and what money I had on things that felt meaningful and right aligned. But with kids you understand even more how important this is to the future and all those who come after you. For me, the challenge of being was to be fully grounded in the body and to accept that I'm ok and it's ok and even good to be here and to be alive. Being here now is good and right, and it's ok to struggle with the difficulties of the physical. For myself, I boost my mood as much as possible with regular outdoor activity and daylight. For many others, it may be understanding that it's ok to be afraid of not being...being here now is still good and right and may be the only real antidote to that fear, as well as to my earlier detachment or lack of full engagement.

Non-being. There are many aspects to this. Here's one. This has always had a bit of a lure to me. I know we will not be one with the emptiness simply on passing from the physical realm. Yet even so, I know that passage from physical life is a time of great clarity and unity and love...a time when we realise what is real, many for the first time in that lifetime. There is a level of ownership and presence there that so many fear now. But which I have always desired. Being present to myself and others without obstruction...to be as fully transparent as possible with yourself, your guides, and those you love. Doesn't that sound amazing? My meditation and energy work shows me the beauty of this realm. And yet, the truth is we are that now as well. There is, ultimately, no difference and no barrier, save those we carry or construct. Desiring to escape to non-being (of whatever version...partial or "full") is ultimately the deepest of misdirections. The challenge of non-being is always to be here now. And to more fully realise what we are in this moment.

Everyone's struggles here will be different, and yet at the same time, no doubt they will also be common to a great many others.
Mine may or may not resonate fully with you...but rest assured, there are many other others who are having the same struggles with many of these same 3 Things.
Peace & blessings
7L

[sentient]

Thanks Rain95 and sky123 for your answers.

Hinayana (where it is at)

Rain95
Yes. In that sentence I'd say "enlightenment" is insight, "nirvana" is actualized or lived insight.

sky123
Realizing rather than seeking. I think of it as being a ' Happening ' rather than a doing.

" Marvelous, marvelous! All sentient beings have the Tathāgata’s wisdom and virtue, but they fail to realize it because they cling to deluded thoughts and attachments."

So basically because of meditation - insights happen, which makes one realize the ‘awake’ quality already present in us and by postmeditational disciplines (insights put in practice?) the Hinayana path leads to ‘self liberation’ – freedom from deluded thoughts and attachments (to things that are impermanent etc.).

*

It's funny when people critique the Hinayana / Theravadan path - or the Path of the Elders - when they have not practiced in it.

As far as I can tell, Rain95 is self taught and intellectualizes the Buddhism teachings as "just don't conceptualize" or think of the thing.

Buddhist insights are meaningful, insightful and based on a real seeing of the function not only of thoughts, emotions - but also consciousness, physical reality itself, God and the ultimate reality. The work is inner gnosis, genuine transformation of being.

There are many, many layers.

As to what each tradition is practicing, sentient, you'd be better placed asking on a Buddhist forum (where the # of practicing Buddhists is exponentially higher, and some who may even work with genuine practicing Masters/Gurus).

sky123 is sweet

Conversationally this is all fine of course Just saying in the event..

JL

[sentient]

Originally Posted by janielee

It's funny when people critique the Hinayana / Theravadan path - or the Path of the Elders - when they have not practiced in it.

When we are afraid of being honest with ourselves, afraid of ‘seeing’ ourselves, meditation isn’t such an attractive proposition, because the insights gained aren’t always pretty.
And to add to that – there are just layers and layers of the stuff, one bitter pill after another.

And if that wasn’t bad enough, then with conscious effort we need to choose to put these insights into practice, which at times can feel like going to the dentist to have our teeth pulled out.

But of course – once we do – we realize that the thing we had clung to was just another rock in our back bag we had been carrying around – and so we get inspired to go further .... taking our pills and peeling onions.

*

[Rain95]

These posts remind me of Buddha's Raft Parable:

The Buddha concluded by saying, So it is with my teachings which are like a raft and are for crossing over with—not for seizing hold of.

Once you have crossed the river, you leave the raft behind and don't carry it with you.

In reality, everything you hear and read and experience is stored in the brain, so you never really leave the "raft" behind. I think a better metaphor in the parable is the two shores at the beginning of it...

A man is trapped on one side of a river. On this side of the river, there is great danger and uncertainty; on the far side is safety. The teachings carry a person from one side to the other

The moving is not from one side of the river to the other, it is changing what we are in this moment. From conflict to peace. From selfish or self centered to selfless.

I think the "raft" being left behind is about actualizing the teachings or living the truth of them. Being what they point to. Instead of just carrying them as ideas or beliefs. It's like studying how to play tennis in books verses actually playing it. One knows the "rules" while playing, but they somehow become unconscious when one is concentrating and fully immersed in the "game." The brain can pull up the rules in a nano second.... when needed or asked for, but then seamlessly we go back into the non verbal experience of playing the game. Which is this case would be being here now without letting mental interpretation disturb this expansive unconditioned non-reactive being.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

These posts remind me of Buddha's Raft Parable:



In reality, everything you hear and read and experience is stored in the brain, so you never really leave the "raft" behind. I think a better metaphor in the parable is the two shores at the beginning of it...



The moving is not from one side of the river to the other, it is changing what we are in this moment. From conflict to peace. From selfish or self centered to selfless.

I think the "raft" being left behind is about actualizing the teachings or living the truth of them. Being what they point to. Instead of just carrying them as ideas or beliefs. It's like studying how to play tennis in books verses actually playing it. One knows the "rules" while playing, but they somehow become unconscious when one is concentrating and fully immersed in the "game." The brain can pull up the rules in a nano second.... when needed or asked for, but then seamlessly we go back into the non verbal experience of playing the game. Which is this case would be being here now without letting mental interpretation disturb this expansive unconditioned non-reactive being.

Would you need the teachings that helped you ' Awaken ' if your awake....
Once you reach the other shore ' Enlightenment ' you would possess your own wisdom,
the teachings have served their purpose , discard them.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by sky123

Would you need the teachings that helped you ' Awaken ' if your awake....
Once you reach the other shore ' Enlightenment ' you would possess your own wisdom,
the teachings have served their purpose , discard them.

Sky123, very nice.

BTW, thank you for your earlier contributions...many of them very helpful for framing my perspectives. Also, very nice story about the greed for peace

Peace & blessings
7L