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  #41  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:03 AM
Mr_Determined Mr_Determined is offline
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The good ol stay silent treatment is probably the wisest thing to do.

One of my closest friends is a Professor for being a 'Sarcastic Abuser' with extremely passive OCD that likes to pretend they aren't accusing directly, even though they are.

I often find myself being tested throughout their venting which I just automatically go into lock down mode and say nothing. I then tend to stay away from them for a few weeks/months until it becomes water under the bridge and forgotten about before mingling again.

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  #42  
Old 13-08-2019, 05:33 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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It is not always the overtly mean that one needs to worry about.

For example – the trusted warm & kind family friend who turns out to be a paedophile.

The most charmingly wonderful charismatic person, who turns out to be a narcissist with the darkest ‘evil angel’ shadow.

The psychopaths who seek out their ‘victims’ by using the trust based seductive approach.

It is important to be open and not lose one’s infant-like innocence, but it is also important to trust ones instincts if something seems a bit off & not be gullible.

*
From:
http://btckstorage.blob.core.windows...Sociopaths.pdf

Quote:
Dr. Martha Stout, in her book 'The Sociopath Next Door', discusses the techniques of the sociopath - what she refers to as 'the tools of the trade'. The first technique she talks about is charm. Dr. Stout believes it is "a primary characteristic of sociopathy.
The intense charm of people who have no conscience, a kind of inexplicable charisma, has been observed and commented on by countless victims, and by researchers who attempt to catalog the diagnostic signs of sociopathy.

It is a potent characteristic". Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Paul Babiak talk about the role of charm during the interview process in their latest book "Snakes in Suits - When Psychopaths Go To Work". According to the book, "one of the most effective skills psychopaths use to get the trust of people is their ability to charm them. Some psychopaths lay the charm on too thick, coming across as glib, superficial, and unconvincing. However, the truly talented ones have raised their ability to charm people to that of an art, priding themselves on their ability to present a fictional self to others that is convincing, taken at face value, and difficult to penetrate". One must always keep in mind that the charm, like manipulation, can be very subtle.

*
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  #43  
Old 14-08-2019, 04:11 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
It is not always the overtly mean that one needs to worry about.

For example – the trusted warm & kind family friend who turns out to be a paedophile.

The most charmingly wonderful charismatic person, who turns out to be a narcissist with the darkest ‘evil angel’ shadow.

The psychopaths who seek out their ‘victims’ by using the trust based seductive approach.

It is important to be open and not lose one’s infant-like innocence, but it is also important to trust ones instincts if something seems a bit off & not be gullible.

*
From:
http://btckstorage.blob.core.windows...Sociopaths.pdf



*
Speaking from direct experience with this, the narcissist who turns out to be a pedophile, is known by the family to be a narcissist, but not necessarily a pedophile.

A person with these traits can only 'turn on the charm" with others who they don't have to spend a considerable amount of time with, because it is exhausting for the narcissist to keep up the charm for a considerable length of time.

My father is currently spending 12 years in jail for serial pedophilia and the family had no idea before he was convicted that this was happening, but it came as no surprise, because we all knew that he was a nasty piece of work otherwise.

Suffice to say that I lost my infant-like innocence a long time ago.
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  #44  
Old 14-08-2019, 04:32 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

How to respond to mean people?

That that they are mean means we are in some way affected or impacted and if we so feel then we need to heal from within first by forgiveness & acceptance and finally by transcendence.

The morn after the harsh wind her petal did shred
The flower sang with the breeze as pollination spread

Love


***
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  #45  
Old 14-08-2019, 04:58 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Speaking from direct experience with this, the narcissist who turns out to be a pedophile, is known by the family to be a narcissist, but not necessarily a pedophile.

A person with these traits can only 'turn on the charm" with others who they don't have to spend a considerable amount of time with, because it is exhausting for the narcissist to keep up the charm for a considerable length of time.

My father is currently spending 12 years in jail for serial pedophilia and the family had no idea before he was convicted that this was happening, but it came as no surprise, because we all knew that he was a nasty piece of work otherwise.

Suffice to say that I lost my infant-like innocence a long time ago.

I’ve been in conversations this past few weeks with a few close friends bearing the seeds from their parental inflictions. I tend to honour the gift they house within all this at the core of their disconnect, not to take away what was and is, but to look towards building understanding through their parents lost innocence as one. Pain from a parent who fails you dramatically for whatever reasons that might be, runs deep. One friend who I’ve worked closely with supporting him to open to his rage and unforgiving ties to his father over the past few years, thought he was clear of it until I asked him recently. “If I were to say you failed like your father, not the way he failed, but in other ways. How would that make you feel?” He looked at me with a very subtle glance that suggested to me, their was still threads. I suggested he close his eyes and feel my question rather than see my question. He did. I asked how that felt in his body. He said “tight and restricted”.

A story shared. Nothing more.
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“Within you is the light of one thousand suns-Robert Adams
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  #46  
Old 14-08-2019, 05:47 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
I’ve been in conversations this past few weeks with a few close friends bearing the seeds from their parental inflictions. I tend to honour the gift they house within all this at the core of their disconnect, not to take away what was and is, but to look towards building understanding through their parents lost innocence as one. Pain from a parent who fails you dramatically for whatever reasons that might be, runs deep. One friend who I’ve worked closely with supporting him to open to his rage and unforgiving ties to his father over the past few years, thought he was clear of it until I asked him recently. “If I were to say you failed like your father, not the way he failed, but in other ways. How would that make you feel?” He looked at me with a very subtle glance that suggested to me, their was still threads. I suggested he close his eyes and feel my question rather than see my question. He did. I asked how that felt in his body. He said “tight and restricted”.

A story shared. Nothing more.
Thank you so much for sharing that story.

I have often wondered if it is best to revisit this, or to let bygones be bygones and just move on with life.

In regards to such, I have also learned that the conscious mind may have an entirely different agenda to the subconscious mind.

There are many aspects of my childhood that I simply cannot remember in detail and whether the "emotional shielding" is a good thing or not, I simply do not know.

Many therapists have tried to break through this barrier, which only ends up frustrating me no end, when I just can't access those memories and emotions they would like me to.

Right now, I am working with "play therapy" and I am doing this on my own, because there are no groups or services in my area which run "playgroups for traumatized adults". I was only speaking about this to my peer support worker yesterday after we both became lost in a mountain of kinetic sand that I should start a "play therapy group" at my local community center.
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  #47  
Old 14-08-2019, 06:14 AM
janielee janielee is offline
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What about hypnotherapy, SD?
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  #48  
Old 14-08-2019, 06:16 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
A person with these traits can only 'turn on the charm" with others who they don't have to spend a considerable amount of time with, because it is exhausting for the narcissist to keep up the charm for a considerable length of time.
When the mask starts to crack …. heh.
There is a good reason for walking on eggshells 24/7. Talking about a kind of ‘mindfulness’ heh.


Quote:
My father is currently spending 12 years in jail for serial pedophilia and the family had no idea before he was convicted that this was happening, but it came as no surprise, because we all knew that he was a nasty piece of work otherwise.
Far out Shivani!!!
I knew that narcissists do often ‘swing both ways’ (because everybody must love them, want them, admire and pay attention to them or there is hell to pay ...), but paedophilia?
Then again, when the narcissist that I knew said that they had their neighbour’s troubled/difficult teenager daughter staying with them for a while, to give the parents and that child a break – all my alarm bells started ringing!

You know what I also think is unfair - is when people do not understand Asperger’s and wrongly suspect or blame Aspies for traits that do not belong to them.

Quote:
Suffice to say that I lost my infant-like innocence a long time ago.
I’d like to think I still have it, but maybe best blame my caution on Pluto in the 12th house - firsthand experiences of these dark, hidden sides you normally cannot even imagine to exist.

But Shivani - you have got a wonderful sense of humor, that surely must be of help to cope with things .... I wish I had it, because as utterly horrible as it is - labeling and laughter does give some kind of a release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfTwNbZ-74

*
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  #49  
Old 14-08-2019, 06:55 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
When the mask starts to crack …. heh.
There is a good reason for walking on eggshells 24/7. Talking about a kind of ‘mindfulness’ heh.



Far out Shivani!!!
I knew that narcissists do often ‘swing both ways’ (because everybody must love them, want them, admire and pay attention to them or there is hell to pay ...), but paedophilia?
Then again, when the narcissist that I knew said that they had their neighbour’s troubled/difficult teenager daughter staying with them for a while, to give the parents and that child a break – all my alarm bells started ringing!

You know what I also think is unfair - is when people do not understand Asperger’s and wrongly suspect or blame Aspies for traits that do not belong to them.


I’d like to think I still have it, but maybe best blame my caution on Pluto in the 12th house - firsthand experiences of these dark, hidden sides you normally cannot even imagine to exist.

But Shivani - you have got a wonderful sense of humor, that surely must be of help to cope with things .... I wish I had it, because as utterly horrible as it is - labeling and laughter does give some kind of a release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfTwNbZ-74

*
It is very interesting you should say that.

There is much overlap between the symptoms of Asperger's Disorder and those of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder which has been caused by years of childhood emotional abuse and neglect.

The lines of distinction become increasingly blurred when during the formative years of a child's social development, they are not exposed to a healthy environment which is conducive to the development of these necessary life skills.

This is the reason why the government has requested that I go and see a specialist in the diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorders every fortnight to try and ascertain this, with the diagnostic criteria being particularly ascribed to certain behaviors which appear within the first few months of life in regards to not meeting certain developmental milestones as being the key indicator.

I was slow to reach all my milestones and also constantly banged my head against the wall from 6-12 months...I screamed whenever I was touched...pretty much standard for the diagnosis of ASD, but I also don't exhibit some of the other behaviours which come under the DSM V criteria for the diagnosis of Asperger's Disorder, however adults with ASD have had longer to adapt than children with the diagnosis, learning certain mechanisms through observing the "neurotypical set" by applied mimickry.

It is a hairy one, no doubt.

Thanks for saying that I have a sense of humor. I have developed one to stop myself from going totally balmy due to my penchant for the over-rationalisation of my emotions which has been my basic "survival mechanism" up to this point.

Janielee: I have tried online hypnosis, but quickly learned that I am not very "suggestable". Maybe it was the fact that it was online and not real life.. maybe It just need a tailored session, maybe I have not found a good hypnotherapist, who knows? I am a bit "iffy" about it, but yes, it is something that I should be investigating further and thanks for your helpful suggestion.
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  #50  
Old 14-08-2019, 11:59 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
I’ve been in conversations this past few weeks with a few close friends bearing the seeds from their parental inflictions. I tend to honour the gift they house within all this at the core of their disconnect, not to take away what was and is, but to look towards building understanding through their parents lost innocence as one. Pain from a parent who fails you dramatically for whatever reasons that might be, runs deep. One friend who I’ve worked closely with supporting him to open to his rage and unforgiving ties to his father over the past few years, thought he was clear of it until I asked him recently. “If I were to say you failed like your father, not the way he failed, but in other ways. How would that make you feel?” He looked at me with a very subtle glance that suggested to me, their was still threads. I suggested he close his eyes and feel my question rather than see my question. He did. I asked how that felt in his body. He said “tight and restricted”.

A story shared. Nothing more.
I think that the rage and unforgiving ties or the confusion ends when you thoroughly learn to understand that the person you thought you were trying to relate to – isn’t or wasn’t even there - ever!
In narcissist’s case, there is only the false self, the mask with predictable patterns. And in most cases there is no cure, not in this lifetime.

The forgiveness and compassion/pity comes when you understand that they simply cannot help themselves but live according to those compulsive patterns that govern every aspects of their lives.

Doesn’t mean you forget though, but knowing the patterns you know to remove/distance yourself from relating.

*

(Not long ago on SBS, I watched an episode of “Who Do You Think You Are” featuring this beautiful person’s – a well-known Australian neurosurgeon’s story, which was interesting).

*
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