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  #171  
Old 19-11-2017, 01:38 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
It seems to me that Jeff's technique is his version of a basic technique, so his exact version may be unique, but it can still be based on ideas that are much older. I don't honestly see why this is a problem?

It’s not to me. :)
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  #172  
Old 19-11-2017, 02:21 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
I understand you are 'Star struck' or mybe Jeff stuck and you cannot see that his visualisations are based on methods used thousands of years ago, of course they are worded differently because visualisation is unique to each person. Nobodys has dispareged the practise but they are not Jeff's invention neither do they need someone from ' lineage ' (which I presume means Jeffs entourage) to perform.

'This page has been charged with light/energy transmission to give such support ' now this statement from Jeff is very silly and sounds slightly cult like.....

I am not star struck by Jeff. :)

I am blessed.

Jeff is my teacher and guru.

Now if you were to ask Jeff he would deny that he is a teacher or a guru.


In all my time with Jeff he has never told me what to practice or what not to practice. He has never told me what to do in my private life or what not to do.

Now as a Qi Gong teacher you should know that the visualization aspect of the technique doesn't matter at all.

Depending on the practice of course but for Internal Fire it doesn't matter at all. For those that it does matter they are much more advanced techniques.

Some people can't visualize anything or only a part of it. It doesn't matter.

What matters is one's intent and the breath.


With the inhale moving the energy from the sun, down through your crown, down into your heart. Then exhaling down from the heart to the earth. Next inhaling and following that energy back up to your heart and exhaling up the spine, through the crown up to the sun.

Slowly, with the breath over and over again.

Just like in meditation when you find yourself gone from the practice just return back to moving the energy up and down with the breath, following it with your intent.

That is the key to the practice. Not the visualization, moving the energy and how one moves the energy.

If you change it to go around the earth 3 times, or circle your body before sending it up it is a different practice with different outcomes. It is more than the visualization, it is how you work with and how that energy works within you.

I know you don't believe in empowerment's or transmissions as we have discussed it many times, offered to demonstrate it many times.. Yet again instead of seeing if it is real.. you instead just put things down that you haven't experienced or don't believe in.
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  #173  
Old 19-11-2017, 10:47 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Hi BT,

I never claimed to be a Buddhist. As a matter of fact I have said I am not many times in many threads. I am a big fan of Dzogchen and Kashmir Shaivism. I tend to use those defined terms form the traditions so that we can have a conversation with defined meaning.

__

As someone calling out anthers character and practice I would like to invite you for a demonstration. One that you could just observe or participate in to judge for yourself.

Hi jonesboy

No thank you, I'm not interested at all. To be honest, it sounds a little cult like to me? But that's just me.

Respectfully, you may wish to stop using Buddhist terms and terminology then? I don't believe any Tibetan Buddhist teacher worth his/her grain of salt would do "transmissions" over the internet, let alone sanction such practices. Not if they are genuine teachers in Buddhism. It's a bit of an insult for you to keep trying to recruit people in this manner utilizing the same words at that tradition and implying affinity.

Be well,

BT
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  #174  
Old 20-11-2017, 04:22 AM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Dzogchen Master Norbu does them all the time and he is highly respected.

:)

I am also not recruiting. I have just offered to demonstrate things is all.

Many people use terms for a common language and understanding.

Far from insulting to do so.

Also can you show me anything I have posted that would be outside of dharma?
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  #175  
Old 20-11-2017, 05:29 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Also can you show me anything I have posted that would be outside of dharma?

I have to be honest with you jonesboy that I hardly read your posts as I don't find them to have the practice i.e. experiential depth I personally like but I also don't mind either - this is after a Spiritual Forum, and not Buddhist forums and I think that you're a nice guy.

However since you keep putting yourself out there and offering transmissions (haha) I thought I would check in with you on lineage/authorization as that underpins the Buddhist traditions. So now you confirm that you have no Buddhist training or experience, it makes a lot of sense (aha!)

But you seem at the same time to still think highly of your own credentials and that it is comparable i.e. you like to utilize Buddhist teachings to increase your own profile. Looking back, I see that is how you position yourself http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...=116882&page=9
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...46#post1610146


Anyway since you now ask we can look at a few examples.

I should also preface this by saying it is a bit disingenuous for you to admit that you have had no Buddhist training/education but want to debate that you have never misrepresented Dharma. But again, since you ask, here's a few things, fwiw:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy in the Buddhism forum
Buddhism is about the techniques much more than the sutras.

If you really want to learn both go learn it from the source... choose a temple and ask someone who has spent there entire lives learning it from within a tradition.

The Sutras are fundamental guides of practice in Buddhism - the Heart Sutra is representative of one of the highest practices and outcomes of the Bodhisattvas and all Buddhas; ditto Diamond Sutra. There are many Sutras in Buddhism - and when you say it is more about the "techniques", you are showing your lack of depth in that

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy in the Buddhism forum
Zen works with Deities and they are not Tibetan.

Zen practice does not "work with" Deities. And they are not Tibetan? This feels like talking to someone who has no background in Buddhism, but we can stay with the former statement. "Zen works with Deities" - no, Zen Buddhism does not "work with Deities". Zen Buddhism is primarily a practice of directly realizing Buddha nature, its major practices include chanting, zazen, koan practice, and Buddha nature. All beings are Buddha nature. Culturally, does it honor Buddha, honor this, honor Kuan Yin? Of course. Tibetan Buddhism does have practices including Medicine Buddha, Tara Practice etc so one could theoretically use the term "work with" in Tibetan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy in Buddhism forum
Because we are each unique and separate we can help each other. We are not just one giant blob. Hence the Bodhisattva vow.

There is no hence here. The Bodhisattva vows stand on their own. They consist of a number of aspects:
Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them
Delusions are endless, I vow to end them
Dhamma gates are innumerable, I vow to wake to them
The Buddha Way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully
As you can see, the Bodhisattva vows are widely encompassing and not just about helping others as we're not a blob, as you say, or infer uniqueness/separateness as causation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy in the Buddhism forum
You are energy.
You either realize it or you don't.
All the traditions from Buddhism, Hinduism and Daoism say the same thing.

If you happen to find a few Googled words "energy" in a tradition, it does not mean that forms the core principle of that religion. To say Buddhism says "you are energy - you either realize it or you don't" is quite an inaccuracy in context, imo. Buddhism teaches Buddha nature - realization of Buddhahood, nibbana, cessation of dukkha, true nature, Dharma. It is not a flight of fancy about energy. Of course life consists of motion and well, life - without form and motion there is no consciousness! In the same way you can say without life there is no energy. But the above is not quite accurate when you try to represent a religion this way. I am sure you can find a quote here or there, but this is different. It is like me finding a quote in Christianity using that word 'energy', this is not to say that Christianity teaches you are energy and you either realize it or you don't. I doubt that is the core of Daoism and Hinduism either but I'll refrain from a conclusion on that (with the same notation about Googled words)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy in the Buddhism forum to sky123

As far as divine beings.. I have showed you threads where people have talked about it after working with me or my friends.

They are real and accessible to all. I have even offered to help you experience it.. You know all this.

Instead you decide it is a joke and dismiss it instead of investigating to see if the world is a little bit more amazing than what you think it is.

This sure sounds like recruitment to me.

Anyway this was an interesting little exercise... Please note it was really a very cursory review of some of your recent posts and took minimal time. I notice you are adept at googling words to back up whichever argument you are putting forward (we all love Google, I admit hehe, I also use it a lot so don't worry about it)

I kind of wish I hadn't read your posts in detail now It's kind of depressing to think these are the things dominating the Buddhist forum. I urge anyone interested in Buddhism to seek out Buddhist forums.

Cheerio, jonesboy. For the record, I have no interest in playing word or google games with you so I'll be leaving it here. I know what you know and don't know, and that's enough for me, if others want to follow you that's fine, but again I would just ask you to respectfully stop misrepresenting yourself as an expert in Buddhism because you are misleading people with eyes wide open (FWIW - of course do what you want though - we all do! hehe ).

Have a good day.

BT
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  #176  
Old 20-11-2017, 05:40 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
I am not star struck by Jeff. :)

I am blessed.

Jeff is my teacher and guru.

Now if you were to ask Jeff he would deny that he is a teacher or a guru.


In all my time with Jeff he has never told me what to practice or what not to practice. He has never told me what to do in my private life or what not to do.

Now as a Qi Gong teacher you should know that the visualization aspect of the technique doesn't matter at all.

Depending on the practice of course but for Internal Fire it doesn't matter at all. For those that it does matter they are much more advanced techniques.

Some people can't visualize anything or only a part of it. It doesn't matter.

What matters is one's intent and the breath.


With the inhale moving the energy from the sun, down through your crown, down into your heart. Then exhaling down from the heart to the earth. Next inhaling and following that energy back up to your heart and exhaling up the spine, through the crown up to the sun.

Slowly, with the breath over and over again.

Just like in meditation when you find yourself gone from the practice just return back to moving the energy up and down with the breath, following it with your intent.

That is the key to the practice. Not the visualization, moving the energy and how one moves the energy.

If you change it to go around the earth 3 times, or circle your body before sending it up it is a different practice with different outcomes. It is more than the visualization, it is how you work with and how that energy works within you.

I know you don't believe in empowerment's or transmissions as we have discussed it many times, offered to demonstrate it many times.. Yet again instead of seeing if it is real.. you instead just put things down that you haven't experienced or don't believe in.


I have declined your offer many times, I can't understand why you keep advertising your transmission/empowerments constantly. I am certain that people are intelligent enough to choose a reliable source if they want to participate in these practises, for example... a Buddhist Master which you are not.
I live very close to a Tibetan Temple and if I wanted to participate in these rituals then I can, free of charge. I have not done this but I am certain that Jeff and his entourage are not qualified nor savvy enough to perform these practises. Of course he/you can say what you want and advertise your rituals but it's not part of Buddhism what you are doing and should not be classed as part of Buddhism....
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  #177  
Old 20-11-2017, 06:16 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
I understand you are 'Star struck' or mybe Jeff stuck and you cannot see that his visualisations are based on methods used thousands of years ago, of course they are worded differently because visualisation is unique to each person. Nobodys has dispareged the practise but they are not Jeff's invention neither do they need someone from ' lineage ' (which I presume means Jeffs entourage) to perform.

'This page has been charged with light/energy transmission to give such support ' now this statement from Jeff is very silly and sounds slightly cult like.....

Energy..... can be felt in many ways JB as you should know from Jeffs teachings.
Vibration, heat, magnetic repulsion, tingling, movement in the meridians, etc: it depends.
If you would like help with understanding Qigong then you can start another thread as we seem to be taking over this one so that's enough from me....

I'd follow a thread on qi gong if you started one.
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  #178  
Old 20-11-2017, 06:20 AM
revolver revolver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Dzogchen Master Norbu does them all the time and he is highly respected.

:)

I am also not recruiting. I have just offered to demonstrate things is all.

Many people use terms for a common language and understanding.

Far from insulting to do so.

Also can you show me anything I have posted that would be outside of dharma?
I have read many postings here, and I must say you are a very level headed person, I myself have had an experience in Consciousness, and it has changed my life completely. What I have read from what you have shared here is the words from a Enlightened being, we are all so called Gurus within, you have found your inner Being and this is what i see shining from you, through your words, a place like this may not be for you ?.
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  #179  
Old 20-11-2017, 01:05 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossomingtree
I have to be honest with you jonesboy that I hardly read your posts as I don't find them to have the practice i.e. experiential depth I personally like but I also don't mind either - this is after a Spiritual Forum, and not Buddhist forums and I think that you're a nice guy.

However since you keep putting yourself out there and offering transmissions (haha) I thought I would check in with you on lineage/authorization as that underpins the Buddhist traditions. So now you confirm that you have no Buddhist training or experience, it makes a lot of sense (aha!)

I go to a Buddhist temple close to my house often and have received empowerments from the Rinpoche.


Anyway Let's look at your posts showing how misinformed I am....





Quote:
The Sutras are fundamental guides of practice in Buddhism - the Heart Sutra is representative of one of the highest practices and outcomes of the Bodhisattvas and all Buddhas; ditto Diamond Sutra. There are many Sutras in Buddhism - and when you say it is more about the "techniques", you are showing your lack of depth in that

I agree sutras are fundamental but you have to understand your audience now don't you?

Do you know you are talking to people that don't believe Tibetan Buddhism is Buddhist at all? How about the same people who believe that Buddhism is whatever you want it to be?

Even still, you can read about the Heart Sutra all day long and without the practices you would never achieve understanding of Emptiness.

Buddhism is about the practices, the realization, the sutra are there to help guide and show the way.

Quote:
The famous saying "do not establish words and letters", attributed in this period to Bodhidharma,[44]


...was taken not as a denial of the recorded words of the Buddha or the doctrinal elaborations by learned monks, but as a warning to those who had become confused about the relationship between Buddhist teaching as a guide to the truth and mistook it for the truth itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen

Still not seeing how you disagree with my statement.



Quote:
Zen practice does not "work with" Deities. And they are not Tibetan? This feels like talking to someone who has no background in Buddhism, but we can stay with the former statement. "Zen works with Deities" - no, Zen Buddhism does not "work with Deities". Zen Buddhism is primarily a practice of directly realizing Buddha nature, its major practices include chanting, zazen, koan practice, and Buddha nature. All beings are Buddha nature. Culturally, does it honor Buddha, honor this, honor Kuan Yin? Of course. Tibetan Buddhism does have practices including Medicine Buddha, Tara Practice etc so one could theoretically use the term "work with" in Tibetan.

Are you not familiar with Yidam deity practices in Tibetan Buddhism? Here maybe this will help.

Quote:
The Vajra Master: from “Dakini Teachings” by Padmasambhava



Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Which is more important, the master or the yidam deity?


The master replied: Do not regard the master and the yidam as different, because it is the master who introduces the yidam to you. By always venerating the master at the crown of your head you will be blessed and your obstacles will be cleared away. If you regard the master and yidam as being different in quality or importance you are holding misconceptions.


Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Why is it important to practice the yidam deity?


The master replied: It is essential to practice a yidam deity because through that you will attain siddhis, your obstacles will be removed, you will obtain powers, receive blessings, and give rise to realization. Since all qualities result from practicing the yidam deity, then without the yidam deity you will just be an ordinary person. By practicing the yidam deity you attain the siddhis, so the yidam deity is essential.


Lady Tsogyal asked the master: When practicing a yidam deity, how should we meditate and practice in order to attain accomplishment?


The master replied: Since means and knowledge are to practice the spontaneously present body, speech and mind through the method of yoga sadhana, they will be accomplished no matter how you carry out the sadhana aspects endowed with body, speech, and mind. They will be accomplished when the sadhana and the recitation are practiced in a sufficient amount.


Lady Tsogyal asked the master: How should we approach the sugata yidam deity?


The master replied: Realize that you and the yidam deity are not two and that there is no yidam deity apart from yourself. You approach the yidam deity when you realize that your nature is the state of nonarising dharmakaya.

Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Which yidam deity is better to practice, a peaceful or wrathful one?


The master replied: Since means and knowledge are practicing the spontaneously present body, speech, and mind through the method of yoga sadhana, all the countless sugatas, peaceful and wrathful, chief figures and retinues, manifest in accordance with those to be tamed in whatever way is necessary–as peaceful and wrathful, chief figures and retinues. But as they are all one taste in the state of dharmakaya, each person can practice whichever yidam he feels inclined toward.


Lady Tsogyal asked the master: If we practice one yidam deity, will that be the same as practicing all sugatas?


The master replied: The body, speech, and mind of all deities are manifested by the three mayas in accordance with the perception of those to be tamed. In fact, no matter how they appear, if you practice one you will be practicing them all. If you accomplish one you will have accomplished them all.


Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Is there any fault in practicing one yidam deity and then practicing another?


The master replied: Although the sugatas manifest as various kinds of families and forms, out of skillful means to tame beings, they are in actuality inseparable, the state of equality. If you were able to practice all the buddhas with this realization of their inseparability, your merit would be most eminent. But if you were to do so while regarding the yidam deities as having different qualities which should be either accepted or rejected, you would be immeasurably obscured. It is inappropriate to regard the yidams as good or bad, and to accept or reject them. If you do not regard them like that, it will be excellent no matter how you practice.

Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Through performing the approach to one tathagata, will we accomplish the mind of all sugatas?

The master replied: By practicing with a vast view and remaining in the nature, you will attain stability in a yidam deity. When you complete the recitation, you will accomplish the activities of all the victorious ones without exception by simply commencing them.



Lady Tsogyal asked the Master: If one’s view is high, is it permissible to dispense with the yidam deity?

The master replied: If you attain confidence in the correct view then that itself is the yidam deity. Do not regard the yidam deity as a form body. Once you realize the nature of dharmakaya you will have accomplished the yidam deity.

Also, Zen is not Tibetan :) Maybe you are confusing Tibetan with Mahayana?

Quote:
is a school of Mahayana Buddhism that originated in China during the Tang dynasty as Chan Buddhism. Zen school was strongly influenced by Taoism and developed as a distinct school of Chinese Buddhism. From China, Chan Buddhism spread south to Vietnam, northeast to Korea and east to Japan, where it became known as Japanese Zen and known as Seon buddihism in Korea.


As far as Zen working with Divine Beings.. maybe looking into the details a little more will help you.


Quote:
A practice in many Zen monasteries and centers is a daily liturgy service. Practitioners chant major sutras such as the Heart Sutra, chapter 25 of the Lotus Sutra (often called the "Avalokiteśvara Sutra"), Song of the Precious Mirror Samadhi, the Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāraṇī, and other minor mantras.

The butsudan is the altar in a monastery where offerings are made to the images of the Buddha or bodhisattvas. The same term is also used in Japanese homes for the altar where one prays to and communicates with deceased family members. As such, reciting liturgy in Zen can be seen as a means to connect with the Bodhisattvas of the past. Liturgy is often used during funerals, memorials, and other special events as means to invoke the aid of supernatural powers.

Chanting usually centers on major bodhisattvas like Avalokiteśvara (see Guanyin) and Manjushri. According to Mahayana Buddhism, bodhisattvas are beings who have taken vows to remain in saṃsāra to help all beings achieve liberation from it. Since the Zen practitioner's aim is to walk the bodhisattva path, chanting can be used as a means to connect with these beings and realize this ideal within oneself.




Quote:
There is no hence here. The Bodhisattva vows stand on their own. They consist of a number of aspects:
Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them
Delusions are endless, I vow to end them
Dhamma gates are innumerable, I vow to wake to them
The Buddha Way is unsurpassed, I vow to embody it fully
As you can see, the Bodhisattva vows are widely encompassing and not just about helping others as we're not a blob, as you say, or infer uniqueness/separateness as causation.

If you had read my posts you would understand I was referring to the end state of advaita compared to that of Buddhism and Kashmir Shaivism.

I think you just read my post to quickly with the mindset of disagree without reading.


Quote:
If you happen to find a few Googled words "energy" in a tradition, it does not mean that forms the core principle of that religion. To say Buddhism says "you are energy - you either realize it or you don't" is quite an inaccuracy in context, imo. Buddhism teaches Buddha nature - realization of Buddhahood, nibbana, cessation of dukkha, true nature, Dharma. It is not a flight of fancy about energy. Of course life consists of motion and well, life - without form and motion there is no consciousness! In the same way you can say without life there is no energy. But the above is not quite accurate when you try to represent a religion this way. I am sure you can find a quote here or there, but this is different. It is like me finding a quote in Christianity using that word 'energy', this is not to say that Christianity teaches you are energy and you either realize it or you don't. I doubt that is the core of Daoism and Hinduism either but I'll refrain from a conclusion on that (with the same notation about Googled words)

Are you familiar with what the Primordial State is, in Buddhism?

Here let me help you understand how energy plays a role in Buddhism.

Quote:
DZOGCHEN
THE SELF-PERFECTED STATE
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base
is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having
three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial
wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

The essence is the void, the real condition of the individual
and of all phenomena
. This base is the condition of all individuals,
whether they are aware of it or not, whether they
are enlightened or in transmigration. It is said to be "pure
from the beginning" (ka dag), because, like space, it is free of
all impediments, and is the basis of all the manifestations in
existence.

The manifestation of the primordial state in all its aspects,
its "clarity," on the other hand, is called the nature. It is said
to be "self-perfected" (lhun grub), because it exists spontaneously
from the beginning, like the sun which shines in
space. Clarity is the pure quality of all thought and of all
perceived phenomena, uncontaminated by mental judgment
.
For example, when we see a flower, we first perceive
its image without the mind entering into judgment, even if
this phase of perception only lasts for a fraction of a second.
Then, in a second phase, mental judgment enters into the
situation and one categorizes the perception, thinking,
"That's a flower, it's red, it has a specific scent, and so on."
Developing from this, attachment and aversion, acceptance
and rejection all arise, with the consequent creation of karma and transmigration. Clarity is the phase in which perception
is vivid and present, but the mind has not yet entered
into action. It is the spontaneous manifestation of the
individual's state. The same is true for thoughts: if we don't
follow them, and don't become caught up in mental judgment,
they too are part of our natural clarity.

The third of the three primordial wisdoms is energy. Its
characteristic is that it manifests without interruption.4 The
explanation of energy in Dzogchen is fundamental to understanding
the base. All dimensions, whether pure or impure,
material or subtle, are manifestations of one aspect or
another of energy.
To explain how both transmigration and
enlightenment originate, three ways in which energy manifests
are described. These three modes of energy are called
"tsel" (rtsal), "rolba" (rol ba) , and "dang" (gdangs), names
that cannot be translated into Western languages.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ght=primordial

Kashmir Shaivism would agree as would most Traditions.

Maybe you should google some more. It might help with some of the misunderstanding you are having.


Quote:
Anyway this was an interesting little exercise... Please note it was really a very cursory review of some of your recent posts and took minimal time. I notice you are adept at googling words to back up whichever argument you are putting forward (we all love Google, I admit hehe, I also use it a lot so don't worry about it)

I kind of wish I hadn't read your posts in detail now It's kind of depressing to think these are the things dominating the Buddhist forum. I urge anyone interested in Buddhism to seek out Buddhist forums.

Cheerio, jonesboy. For the record, I have no interest in playing word or google games with you so I'll be leaving it here. I know what you know and don't know, and that's enough for me, if others want to follow you that's fine, but again I would just ask you to respectfully stop misrepresenting yourself as an expert in Buddhism because you are misleading people with eyes wide open (FWIW - of course do what you want though - we all do! hehe ).

Have a good day.

BT


I think we can agree that we both have a different depth of understanding not just what reality is made up of within Buddhism but what they practice as well.

It is always best to learn with an open mind than to disparage another with a closed one.

Give it a shot
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  #180  
Old 20-11-2017, 01:13 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
I have declined your offer many times, I can't understand why you keep advertising your transmission/empowerments constantly. I am certain that people are intelligent enough to choose a reliable source if they want to participate in these practises, for example... a Buddhist Master which you are not.
I live very close to a Tibetan Temple and if I wanted to participate in these rituals then I can, free of charge. I have not done this but I am certain that Jeff and his entourage are not qualified nor savvy enough to perform these practises. Of course he/you can say what you want and advertise your rituals but it's not part of Buddhism what you are doing and should not be classed as part of Buddhism....

Interesting, are you now saying that you believe in transmissions and that someone should go to a qualified teacher for one?

Because you have mentioned many times that you don't believe in empowerments, transmission, don't believe in a teacher and that Buddhism is whatever you want it to be.

Do you just disagree with people to disagree because it is very hard to tell what you actually believe Sky. Do you just say whatever the group is saying to try and be cool?

Very hard to tell.
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