Emptiness

[sky]

Dalai Lama expounded on the nature of mind in a*2014 speech*in Cambridge: “In general, the mind can be defined as an entity that has the nature of mere experience, that is, “clarity and knowing.” It is the knowing nature, or agency, that is called mind, and this is non-material.”

But he didn't tell where it resides
It's not the brain, it's separate from the body, so where is it hiding...

[Jeremy Bong]

The Mind is for thinking the controller of the whole body function. The Chinese is using" heart" (用心想)to think so it's the Mind. The English using the heart to think,that's to follow the heart or to follow the Mind. For me, I think it's the whole nervous system, even my knee also know how to think. That's not a joke , you can focus your thought at your knee slowly you try to think from that part it does the thinking but it's a bit slow at process.

For outside response to any situation the Mind become the compassion,love, hate, angry,....... our mind can sometimes be replaced by others that is possessed by ghost or God.

Mind can controlling the world or universe when it's powerful and he is the Creator of universe. So Mind is great and it can be found inside or outside of Creator.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

The Mind is for thinking the controller of the whole body function. The Chinese is using" heart"(心)to think so it's the Mind. For me, I think it's the whole nervous system, even my knee also know how to think. That's not a joke , you can focus your thought at your knee slowly you try to think from that part it does the thinking but it's a bit slow at process.

For outside response to any situation the Mind become the compassion,love, hate, angry,....... our mind can sometimes be replaced by others that is possessed by ghost or God.

Mind can be controlling the world or universe when it's powerful and he is the creator of universe. So Mind is great and it can be found inside or outside of Self.

Thanks Jeremy, I'll use the mind to contemplate your post

[Within Silence]

Originally Posted by A human Being

Maybe it depends on your definition of Mind. I was assuming that for you the term is synonymous with God, Source, whatever you want to call it, because you'd capitalised it, but maybe that was an incorrect assumption.

What you said brought to mind a question I've heard posed by some spiritual teacher or other - what do we know absolutely? It's a good question to ponder, I think

I don't absolutely define mind, as that would impose limitations which I think Mind is not limited, whatever Mind is. As I see it, Mind is all there ever has been, I think that nothing could be created without it, but I don't know what Mind actually is; Spirit perhaps, God maybe, Soul, whatever those are?

I absolutely don't know that there are no absolutes, but of course I may be absolutely mistaken about the concept of absolutes. Words are so fun, you can paint any picture you want with them.

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

Yes, everything is a concept, because everything is a product of Mind, thus nothing can usurp Mind as a substantial reality because everything that comes from Mind must be a concept, as, nothing rises higher than its source, that which is created cannot rise higher than that which created it. Thus Mind is all, hence anything that Mind creates must be conceptual. Every word is a concept, every name, every sound, every form, everything is of Mind, thus conceptual, created, a draft, an effect all originating out of Mind which is cause. It is itself so. It is both cause & effect as they are "not two" but one whole continuos movement, moment-um.......and on and on the game goes......

You are using the word conceptual differently than I do. You are applying it to some concept about the creation of all that is. "God's" mind in other words. That's fine but I was talking specifically about you and me. A human experience. Enlightenment is a human experience. I was not philosophizing about the source and what it is or does. I can talk about that and I have knowledge about that but my main interest is my moment to moment experience because that's where you find enlightenment, not in some over reaching pondering about the nature of all that is.

Coming back down to earth and this human life, a concept is a mental image of something. A thought about something. These thoughts exist in the human mind and we view the world "through" them. They are like a filter we see and experience the world through. What Buddha and others are talking about is their experience that it's possible to get rid of these filters created by thought. To experience the world without them. To experience and interact with reality without a filter, without thought interfering with the experience.

So saying "everything is a concept" is not even close to what Buddha was describing. Nothing is a concept. We have concepts about things. If every human died, those things would still be there. What would not be there is any concepts about them. According to many human beings who have experienced this thing, Buddha etc, it is possible to experience life without concepts, without thought. It takes a high degree of self awareness and insight to view and experience the world this way, and what you are changes to achieve this view since a lot of what we have created ourselves to be is concept based, but we can get there if we are interested in pursuing that. There is a path that leads to enlightenment available to all.

[RyanWind]

A little more on concepts and Zen practice if anybody is interested.

The human body and brain is an amazing machine. It automatically works, with no input from "us," to make life easier for us. For example, the first time you opened a door you really had to work at it. This probably happened when you were a toddler but you had to look at the door knob, try to figure out how it turns, figure out you have to turn and pull at the same time etc. Now opening a door is an unconscious process. You open doors without having to think about it at all. The same thing applies when you eat. The fork or spoon picks up the food and puts it into your mouth with zero conscious attention having to be applied to do it. Your "body" knows how to do it. It does it automatically.

Concepts are another way the brain makes life easier for us. You taste something like mushrooms or broccoli and you form a concept about then. If it tastes good or bad to you for example. The next time you are offered to eat these things, your concept or thought pops up and you think I like this or I don't like this. We have concepts about everything we encounter. Is it good or bad or some mix of the two, is it something I want or don't want, does it make me happy or sad, does it made me mad or content, do I like it or dislike it.... So just like opening the door knob, this conceptual thinking is automatic. The brain does it to make life easier for us. We don't have to taste mushrooms over and over if we have already formed a concept we don't like them. If we have formed an opinion or concept about somebody or something, we can just accept those thoughts telling us what is there every time we encounter these things or people. It becomes automatic.

The next level is ideas and beliefs and opinions. not based on experience or loosely based on experience. These are all concepts as well. These are things we accept as ideas. Like I should go to church, or church is a waste of time, I should stay away from mean people, I know this and that to be true and nobody else better not tell me I'm wrong, homeless people are lazy alcoholics, democrats or republicans are good or bad, right or wrong, help me or harm me on some way. This means that, that means this. These concepts appear to us as thought and it creates our experience of the world. This is also an automatic process. You see something, the thought is there. You read something, the thought is there.

So that is normal human life. Habits and memory and automatic thinking create our day. How do you escape this robot like daily life? One Zen practice is to do everything consciously. Like if you open a door, you become aware you are doing it. You feel the door knob, are aware if it is cold or warm, smooth or rough, consciously do things instead of the normal doing things unconsciously. Seems like a dumb practice to some but there is a purpose behind it. To be aware of what you are doing. This is being aware of the body and what it is doing. The next level is to be aware of the mind and what it is doing. So somebody says, hey want to go see the new Disney movie? And you notice the thought comes, "I don't like cartoons" and you question the truth of that thought your brain has produced. Did you, as the conscious being in that moment make that thought, or did your brain automatically make it with no input from you? What is the relationship between you and your thoughts? Are they really from you? What are you? So here again, you are bringing in awareness to what are normally habitual unconscious processes or unconscious living.

So that is what Zen is. It is a more aware state of consciousness. It's a being awake and aware in the moment. No longer blindly letting the body and thought create or influence your experience. Also related to this is realizing what you are through self observation. With enough self observation, insights, and practice, you become self realized or discover what you really are and you reside there as a moment to moment perception. Then instead of habitually accepting all thought as being you, projecting whatever pops into your mind as "truth" to yourself and the outside world, you dissociate yourself from your thoughts, You are the center of being, not thought. Thought becomes something you use, not something that is you.

[sky]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

A little more on concepts and Zen practice if anybody is interested.

The human body and brain is an amazing machine. It automatically works, with no input from "us," to make life easier for us. For example, the first time you opened a door you really had to work at it. This probably happened when you were a toddler but you had to look at the door knob, try to figure out how it turns, figure out you have to turn and pull at the same time etc. Now opening a door is an unconscious process. You open doors without having to think about it at all. The same thing applies when you eat. The fork or spoon picks up the food and puts it into your mouth with zero conscious attention having to be applied to do it. Your "body" knows how to do it. It does it automatically.

Concepts are another way the brain makes life easier for us. You taste something like mushrooms or broccoli and you form a concept about then. If it tastes good or bad to you for example. The next time you are offered to eat these things, your concept or thought pops up and you think I like this or I don't like this. We have concepts about everything we encounter. Is it good or bad or some mix of the two, is it something I want or don't want, does it make me happy or sad, does it made me mad or content, do I like it or dislike it.... So just like opening the door knob, this conceptual thinking is automatic. The brain does it to make life easier for us. We don't have to taste mushrooms over and over if we have already formed a concept we don't like them. If we have formed an opinion or concept about somebody or something, we can just accept those thoughts telling us what is there every time we encounter these things or people. It becomes automatic.

The next level is ideas and beliefs and opinions. not based on experience or loosely based on experience. These are all concepts as well. These are things we accept as ideas. Like I should go to church, or church is a waste of time, I should stay away from mean people, I know this and that to be true and nobody else better not tell me I'm wrong, homeless people are lazy alcoholics, democrats or republicans are good or bad, right or wrong, help me or harm me on some way. This means that, that means this. These concepts appear to us as thought and it creates our experience of the world. This is also an automatic process. You see something, the thought is there. You read something, the thought is there.

So that is normal human life. Habits and memory and automatic thinking create our day. How do you escape this robot like daily life? One Zen practice is to do everything consciously. Like if you open a door, you become aware you are doing it. You feel the door knob, are aware if it is cold or warm, smooth or rough, consciously do things instead of the normal doing things unconsciously. Seems like a dumb practice to some but there is a purpose behind it. To be aware of what you are doing. This is being aware of the body and what it is doing. The next level is to be aware of the mind and what it is doing. So somebody says, hey want to go see the new Disney movie? And you notice the thought comes, "I don't like cartoons" and you question the truth of that thought your brain has produced. Did you, as the conscious being in that moment make that thought, or did your brain automatically make it with no input from you? What is the relationship between you and your thoughts? Are they really from you? What are you? So here again, you are bringing in awareness to what are normally habitual unconscious processes or unconscious living.

So that is what Zen is. It is a more aware state of consciousness. It's a being awake and aware in the moment. No longer blindly letting the body and thought create or influence your experience. Also related to this is realizing what you are through self observation. With enough self observation, insights, and practice, you become self realized or discover what you really are and you reside there as a moment to moment perception. Then instead of habitually accepting all thought as being you, projecting whatever pops into your mind as "truth" to yourself and the outside world, you dissociate yourself from your thoughts, You are the center of being, not thought. Thought becomes something you use, not something that is you.

Its like having two minds ( wherever they are ) a conscious and an automatic, mindfulness is like turning the automatic mind off.
I notice when I eat a meal mindfully the food tastes a lot better and I enjoy it a lot more than a rushed meal, walking mindfully is also very therapeutic. It's all good but sometimes there isn't enough time in the day to practise it in everything I do but mybe this is the ' automatic ' telling me this to trick me

[RyanWind]

I wonder if it is similar to the difference between normal dreaming and lucid dreaming. Maybe waking life also has a unconscious passive state and a conscious state.