The Legend Of Oneness

Originally Posted by Buzz

Please don't misunderstand me. I have enjoyed glimpses during meditation and in other states. I don't view it as a theory.
My inquiry is, considering that oneness is paraded about in both dual and non dual circles, is its role over emphasised within the context of the human experience. Does the seeking of a 'higher' state dampen the expression pf being here and now within this life?

That's an excellent question.
I feel it's an experience of our true self, our natural state .....the one that transcends "death"

Long as one is content-fulfilled by daily achievements , why seek more, indeed?

Only when one truly hungers for more, (some eternal truth-reality), does such a "search" seem worthwhile.
Or even desirable.... from their pov

One needn't experience transcendent realities to live a fulfilling life ... but for some , it becomes a necessity, once they sense-suspect an "incompleteness" the "separation" from their true self.
The frantic search for increasing hedonistic fulfillment is often a symptom of this deeper need.

In my case a hunger for all consuming love. I especially felt in my 20's, seeking a soulmate, was that symptom. Yet it is only temporarily found in romantic love.


Yet , some say "searching" can become a trap.... as well.

Enjoy it while it's here. life is full of impermanence.

Originally Posted by Buzz

Oneness. Held aloof by teachers and seekers alike. All one needs to do is drop the O word into the mix and all fall silent and reverent on it's uttering.

Not everyone Buzz...and i would speculate, considering the vast numbers in traditional religions, not as many as imagined.

I am not diminishing it's validity as an ultimate way of being but I do question the constant use of it being paraded about at times by anyone as simply just another form of forum gamesmanship or by gurus trying to sell books.

Ah, another enquirer, a man after my own heart.
Sheesh.. what an odd saying.

In our own minds, we tend to saddle ourselves with all sorts of concepts and ideals that make it hard enough to break through.

Who's the rider?

We can view ourselves as either Gods or Monsters with not much in between and take lifetimes just to shake off these values.

"Not much in between", as in what's in between is of little value or, that numerically there is little to choose from between the parameters?

Either way, i choose to identify myself as human, a most beautiful and interesting creature.
So much so, that a god or monster does not attract my attention.

Does the idea of oneness add to our burden or does it instill us with lifeforce to journey on?

Each person chooses the effect it has on them.

How many of us here live in an illuminated world of non duality and oneness?

I suppose those that conclude they do, the exact number i do not know.

How many of us are above the day to day problems of this life?

I suppose those that conclude they do, the exact number i do not know.

How many of us are free of even our own minds ( without the use of medication or drugs )

I suppose those that conclude they do, the exact number i do not know.

If I sound cynical, please hear me out.

You don't sound cynical to me, Buzz.

I have simply seen Oneness used time and time again in line with the 'everything is illusion' and 'I don't exist' arguements that simply serve as another form of a verbal contest. I find the use of it redundant as it simply doesn't encompass where most of us are on the path and I simply question the motivation of the story tellers.

Nice..more enquiry..more individual thought.

So again, I am not arguing about the validity of oneness, simply the effectiveness of holding it high when it is simply not the waking experience of the bulk of us.

I am not claiming anyone is holding anything high.
I am simply commenting on your observations.
I reason why a person holds something up high is:
- so others can get an unobstructed view of it.
- it is valued by the valuer to be more valuable that the valuer <---ow, i broke my brain.
- holding things higher stops others from obtaining it.
- or to give the appearance it is an unobtainable object.
- fear of a flood.
- boredom.

I have no idea how many experience it.

Is it just another concept for heaven?

It is whatever a person chooses to conclude it is.

Is it any more pertinent than religious doctrine?

It is whatever a person chooses to conclude it is.

Is it not more beneficial to stand where we are, rather then further desire any other state of existance?

Each person chooses via analysis of their experiences, what is benefical to them or not.

Please input if you feel so drawn to.

I thank you for the invite.

I am not fixed one way or the other , simply just turning up rocks and seeing what lies beneath.

YAY...inquisitiveness, explorative nature...but...well,it's late...please don't turn up the rocks too loud, m'kay.
~smiles~ Cheers.

Hahahahaha.... you truly are the man AC. Sometimes I dread reading down to the end of your segmented responses. I expect to find a mark out of 10 or at least a comment like 'more work required' or 'needs to pay attention in class' :)

Originally Posted by Ascension

Oneness is the *Presence of God* God is One .
There is no beginning no end ,god was always there .
Everything is made of matters so we all one and the same .

The only way to prove if god was "always there" is for the observer, the proclaimer,
to have been there at the beginning and the end of this eternity.
If the claim has not been actually experienced, then it remains a theory/concept/belief.

The explanation of Oneness describe life at the core , it's not a theory but
a fact everything in a deeply sense is related , as we believe or not in
miracles at the end it's normal doing on a higher level .

I for one would like to see this evidence of the explanation of Oneness.

The current research in quantum physics that shows that all matter is connected only shows that below the atomic and subatomic level,
there is an unknown energy force that connects all matter together.
The researchers of this evidence are not claiming this energy field is god or that it is infinite.
Those claims are made by non scientists who choose to see this evidence is revealing god.

One of the things i find unproductive about the Oneness theory is the claim that everything is One, and this Oneness is love.
And how some say..paraphrasing...
"You and I are one so you better get with the program of loving me, you have no excuse because we are one"
To me, this attitude diminishes the power of love.
There is no need for the uber version of love...unconditional love, because there are no conditions, there is only one.

Love is at it's best when a person loves another who behaves unlovingly toward them.
When a person loves the hater.
What purpose does love have in a reality when there is no one to love?
None that i can see...love is rendered a pointless force.

"You and I are one so you better get with the program of loving me, you have no excuse because we are one"
Covers over the actual problem within people who are currently strugging to love, the giving and recieving of it.

In the center of a room are two people arguing with each other, getting a bit physical, a bit of rough housing.
Off to the side is a Oneness Advocate(OA) and me(AC), who does not agree with the claims made about Oneness.

AC: why did you throw that blanket over those two?
OA: oh that's the blanket of Oneness, it will stop those two from fighting because they are in fact one, and everything is actually love.
AC: How long does it take to work because they are still fighting?
OA: Oh it begins to work as soon as they accept the explanation to be the truth.
AC: And what if a person chooses to not accept it as truth?
OA: It is the truth, they have to accept it otherwise they will keep fighting, can't they see this solves all of humanity's problems!
AC: Or they could heal their separate individual selves of their blockages to loving others,
and then they will stop fighting.
They can disagree about many things but still love each other.
OA: No no, God...i mean Oneness, sorry, old habits...
Oneness is Love, that is all there is Oneness, Love.
All hail the power of the love blanket ! Come worship with me ! We have tea, coffee and biscuits after the service.

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hahahahaha.... you truly are the man AC. Sometimes I dread reading down to the end of your segmented responses. I expect to find a mark out of 10 or at least a comment like 'more work required' or 'needs to pay attention in class' :)

I suspect that's why some don't like my explorative, analytical mode of enquiry.
They feel like i am belittling their thoughts. showing them how wrong they are, those kind of things,
the "unusual "responses to my enquiries that i find interesting.

Why do some translate a question into, "Oh he's picking on me/my ideas/beliefs?"
Why do some feel threatened and thus respond in defense or attack mode?
I try to find out once i see these types of responses,
but it's difficult to communicate with someone who has become emotionally troubled
and any further enquiries from me simply freaks them out more.
I have been internally labeled "trouble" and they will have nothing more to do with me.
What they fail to recognise is they put the label on the wrong thing.
I am not "trouble"...they are "troubled".
if i was "trouble"...everyone would freak out when i enquire or "nit-pick".
See the post on Buttons for a more detailed discussion on the subject.

AFTERTHOUGHT: Clarification Buzz..i am not "the man", i am simply a man, just like all other men...further...i am simply a human , just like all other humans.
Well yes, i am the man who writes my posts, in that context, i am the man.
~sings~ I'm the man who makes the whole world sing. I write the songs, i write the songs.
Me thinks Barry Manilow had some self worth issues then, but then,
i really don't know all the lyrics to that song to make an informed conclusion, so i retract what i said..

Speaking of songs, have you checked out my Shufflin'' thread yet?
My current funny fav is the the short clip of the dancing Zebra, doing the shufflin' of course.
That Zebra sure can shuffle.

Oh, and the old timer, it seems shufflin' has been around for many years.
And the US soldiers is also sweet.

But my all time fav funny one goes to the wacky asians...GANGNUM STYLE ...whoap....whoap, whoap, whoap ...gangnam stye.

In my youth I had cause to 'research' with state altering substances. On at least 2 occassions after 'experimenting' with Lysurgic Acid I experienced states of being that I could not dennounce as being 'mystical'. They were infused with a deep connection. I was even aware of 'strings', like that of a harp that when plucked, reverated and resonated with all of creation.
Even though drug induced, I could not write these experiences off. Since then I have had glimpses during meditation.
So I view oneness from personal experience but my issues simply relate to grasping after it particually as a means to reach beyond pain and suffering.
If pain and suffering is before us, is it not appropriate to first sit with that instead of the human game of avoidamce?

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

I suspect that's why some don't like my explorative, analytical mode of enquiry.
They feel like i am belittling their thoughts. showing them how wrong they are, those kind of things, the "unusual "responses to my enquiries.

Why do some translate a question into, "Oh he's picking on me/my ideas/beliefs?"
Why do some feel threatened and thus respond in defense or attack mode?
I try to find out once i see these types of responses,
but it's difficult to communicate with someone who has become emotionally troubled
and any further enquiries from me simply freaks them out more.
I have been internally labeled "trouble" and they will have nothing more to do with me.
What they fail to recognise is they put the label on the wrong thin
I am not "trouble"...they are "troubled".
if i was "trouble"...everyone would freak out when i enquire or "nit-pick".
See the post on Buttons for amore detailed analysis.

AC, the ability to laugh at oneself is not widespread. On the 'spiritual' path it should be manditory for the purpose of self preservation. Personally I like your jack hammer approach, but hey, I'm funny like that!

Originally Posted by Henri77

That's an excellent question.
I feel it's an experience of our true self, our natural state .....the one that transcends "death"

Long as one is content-fulfilled by daily achievements , why seek more, indeed?

Only when one truly hungers for more, (some eternal truth-reality), does such a "search" seem worthwhile.
Or even desirable.... from their pov

One needn't experience transcendent realities to live a fulfilling life ... but for some , it becomes a necessity, once they sense-suspect an "incompleteness" the "separation" from their true self.
The frantic search for increasing hedonistic fulfillment is often a symptom of
this deeper need.

In my case a hunger for all consuming love. I especially felt in my 20's, seeking a soulmate, was that symptom. Yet it is only temporarily found in romantic love.


Yet , some say "searching" can become a trap.... as well.

Thanks Henri. The dark and twisting alleyways we get taken down in order to see out our life experiences seem haphazard and half assed at times. I think though we have all looked back and been amazed by the chain of events that enabled us to get thus far. Even the slightest sincronicity can alter our course. Mind boogling stuff!! Searching for wholeness in the arms of another seems an important part of our upbringing.
Giving up the search, changes everything. It doesn't simply stop at your spiritual search, it works across the boards. The LOA guys would scratch their heads over this thinking it is a state worse than death to not want stuff to happen. But I guess it is a situation of you had to be there.

Originally Posted by Buzz

In my youth I had cause to 'research' with state altering substances. On at least 2 occassions after 'experimenting' with Lysurgic Acid I experienced states of being that I could not dennounce as being 'mystical'. They were infused with a deep connection. I was even aware of 'strings', like that of a harp that when plucked, reverated and resonated with all of creation.
Even though drug induced, I could not write these experiences off. Since then I have had glimpses during meditation.
So I view oneness from personal experience but my issues simply relate to grasping after it particually as a means to reach beyond pain and suffering.
If pain and suffering is before us, is it not appropriate to first sit with that instead of the human game of avoidamce?

~thumbsup~ regarding your observations about avoidance of pain and suffering.

~nods~ regarding the other stuff.

Originally Posted by Buzz

AC, the ability to laugh at oneself is not widespread. On the 'spiritual' path it should be manditory for the purpose of self preservation. Personally I like your jack hammer approach, but hey, I'm funny like that!

Tnx though the thing is Buzz, i do not see i am like jackhammer.
Compared to how i conduct myself within my own personal explorations,
i explore with others very mildly, i gently look below the surface,
and am surprised when another freaks out so much.
I'm like,"huh, i was just asking a simple question, why the face?"

My dear ol mum is like this.
Yesterday i asked, "How old it this thing you have bought?"
Whoa, didn't she explode with the ow ow and the hey hey and the blood reign.

Gotta go, picking up this item for me mum in town today.
Also, time for a sit down, coffee, music readin' writing, DVD shop, bask in the beauty of the womens in the street mall.