"Metas" Spirits, Dreams, and the Astral.

I stumbled upon something when astral projecting today...something very very interesting and very crazy at the same time.
I came across an old man, and I asked him how to get rid of negative astral beings. He started explaining very quickly to me that "There are no real astral beings", "It doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist, Hindu, or Christian. There are only "Metas" and "Dreams are metaprogramming". I actually wasn't sure what the word "Meta" meant until I looked it up.
Definition: "Meta- (from Greek: μετά = "after", "beyond", "with", "adjacent", "self"), is a prefix used in English (and other Greek-owing languages) to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter." "(meta- (prefix)) after, beyond, change"

This would explain why dreams seem to be so abstract and make no sense, and how events just occur one after another with no logical link between each event. It explains how in the astral, things stumble into an Alice in Wonderland-type of scenario. This would also explain where deities and other strange concepts in religion come from. Also how so called "spirit guides", shape shifters, Succubi, Demons, Astral environments and beings in general, never have one consistent form.


A "Meta" would be a dream character, never having a true form but could possibly be influenced by the person's thought forms in some way. But sometimes dreams and situations in the astral feel like they are not imagined by you, so this would mean that these so called "Meta" beings could potentially have their own awareness in order to make decisions on how the abstract concepts in a dream are to take place, and what form they themselves may take, and these abstract forms could potentially be influenced, or even purposely created by other conscious beings that exist there. Or perhaps it is unconsciously influenced by yourself...I'm not sure. He referred to them as being called "Metas" as if they were separate.

However, for this guy to have even spoken to me in such a way says that there are real beings that reside there... but real conscious human beings can't be as common as some people think. He also said "the feeling of situations being real or fake is just an illusion."

The only thing I can't figure out is...What is the point to this?

My goodness earthatic, you do like to bring on the deep ones!

What you have learned is one of the most basic yet arcane of knowings. What your friend Meta was explaining to you was the very basis of perception itself - an understanding that is about as straight as it gets.

The basic question is, "How can a consciousness be interconnected with All, yet also have independence of thought and will?" The answer is simply that consciousness is NOT literal, but representational.

In other words, all the things in your mind are not the things themselves, but reflections of things. When you think of the moon, you know what you mean, though it really isn't the moon in your head.

Now, this may seem somehwat nonsensicle and irrelevant, but believe me, it has everything to do with everything, so just bear with me for a minute.

For example, let's say you dream of a demon. You know what a demon looks like: Horns, red scaly skin, fangs, talons, nasty disposition - or some permutation of these things. The question is, of what possible purpose could horns, fangs, and talons serve a metaphysical being?? Where did they come from - did they evolve, as they did on earth? How does that work??

The fact is, one minute of reflection on these forms reveals what an impossible creature a 'demon' actually is. So, the question is why do they look as they do? The answer is simple - they look the way they do so that your rational mind understands their purpose and meaning.

Right about now you are probably thinking well then, they are just a figment of my imagination - they are not real! Ah, my metaphysicist friend, but you would be wrong. Demons can have a very tangible reality to those who experience them. How they appear is simply a matter of the subconscious translating their presence in a form that the rational mind can make sense of, comprehend, and make decisions about.

(It is true one persons dream-forms are fairly inconsistent from another persons, but if you look closely at this you will see they differ in detail only. In general, there is a LOT of consistency, following some pretty general rules of archetypal form.)

It is indeed an abstraction - a meta-being - a metaphor for some force impinging on your psyche, which your subconscious interprets as spiritually hostile. You know - a demon, with teeth that tear and talons that rend, etc.

And the same thing goes for any character in a dream. And when projecting. The difference, where there is one, is something I call internally informed versus externally informed, meaning the difference between your own mental players or some outside agency. Through practice, the difference can often be discerned by 'feel'.

It IS fascinating that a character in your dream named 'Meta' told you all this. Was he an element of your own psyche, or some helper you may never see again? Who knows - that's between you and your path.

Metaphor is the native language of consciousness. I think if you paid more attention to your dreams, wrote them down and started disecting them as people often do, you may find those 'Alice in Wonderland' scenarios just might start bearing more relevance to you and your life. Dreams are communications from the subconscious, regardless if we understand the message or not.

So, if you have taken the time to read through all of this, be assured, it all makes a GREAT DEAL of sense, and really there is a very simple lesson to remember from it all, and then you can forget the rest, because this whole meta-phorical subconscious translation process really just takes care of itself, usually operating quite invisibly. The lesson to remember is simply this, as Meta implied: Reality is an illusion.

Now, that's not to say Reality does not exist or that we all just live in some sort of giant metaphysical Matrix - it just means that the reality in your head isn't literal, it is representational. All those people who argue vehemently that their views are the REAL reality - well, I am afraid they have been completely taken in by their own minds. They are powerless within their own illusion.

Reality is real - but the price we pay for having independent thought and will is that our perceptions are by necessity independent as well - though we do manage to get by, usually.

Whew! - sorry for the long post!

Originally Posted by Humm

My goodness earthatic, you do like to bring on the deep ones!

What you have learned is one of the most basic yet arcane of knowings. What your friend Meta was explaining to you was the very basis of perception itself - an understanding that is about as straight as it gets.

The basic question is, "How can a consciousness be interconnected with All, yet also have independence of thought and will?" The answer is simply that consciousness is NOT literal, but representational.

In other words, all the things in your mind are not the things themselves, but reflections of things. When you think of the moon, you know what you mean, though it really isn't the moon in your head.

Now, this may seem somehwat nonsensicle and irrelevant, but believe me, it has everything to do with everything, so just bear with me for a minute.

For example, let's say you dream of a demon. You know what a demon looks like: Horns, red scaly skin, fangs, talons, nasty disposition - or some permutation of these things. The question is, of what possible purpose could horns, fangs, and talons serve a metaphysical being?? Where did they come from - did they evolve, as they did on earth? How does that work??

The fact is, one minute of reflection on these forms reveals what an impossible creature a 'demon' actually is. So, the question is why do they look as they do? The answer is simple - they look the way they do so that your rational mind understands their purpose and meaning.

Right about now you are probably thinking well then, they are just a figment of my imagination - they are not real! Ah, my metaphysicist friend, but you would be wrong. Demons can have a very tangible reality to those who experience them. How they appear is simply a matter of the subconscious translating their presence in a form that the rational mind can make sense of, comprehend, and make decisions about.

(It is true one persons dream-forms are fairly inconsistent from another persons, but if you look closely at this you will see they differ in detail only. In general, there is a LOT of consistency, following some pretty general rules of archetypal form.)

It is indeed an abstraction - a meta-being - a metaphor for some force impinging on your psyche, which your subconscious interprets as spiritually hostile. You know - a demon, with teeth that tear and talons that rend, etc.

And the same thing goes for any character in a dream. And when projecting. The difference, where there is one, is something I call internally informed versus externally informed, meaning the difference between your own mental players or some outside agency. Through practice, the difference can often be discerned by 'feel'.

It IS fascinating that a character in your dream named 'Meta' told you all this. Was he an element of your own psyche, or some helper you may never see again? Who knows - that's between you and your path.

Metaphor is the native language of consciousness. I think if you paid more attention to your dreams, wrote them down and started disecting them as people often do, you may find those 'Alice in Wonderland' scenarios just might start bearing more relevance to you and your life. Dreams are communications from the subconscious, regardless if we understand the message or not.

So, if you have taken the time to read through all of this, be assured, it all makes a GREAT DEAL of sense, and really there is a very simple lesson to remember from it all, and then you can forget the rest, because this whole meta-phorical subconscious translation process really just takes care of itself, usually operating quite invisibly. The lesson to remember is simply this, as Meta implied: Reality is an illusion.

Now, that's not to say Reality does not exist or that we all just live in some sort of giant metaphysical Matrix - it just means that the reality in your head isn't literal, it is representational. All those people who argue vehemently that their views are the REAL reality - well, I am afraid they have been completely taken in by their own minds. They are powerless within their own illusion.

Reality is real - but the price we pay for having independent thought and will is that our perceptions are by necessity independent as well - though we do manage to get by, usually.

Whew! - sorry for the long post!

Hello!
No, the man in the dream wasn't named "Meta", he was stating that the astral beings are called "Metas" and that dreams are "Metaprogramming" relating to their nature as what they really are.

When you create new layers of abstraction between the thing or event, you are becoming more meta.

For example: A footnote that is needed to explain another footnote is meta.

The problem with being meta is that if you add sufficient layers of abstraction or complexity between the original event and the convenient abstractions you create to clarify or explain it, you eventually lose all connection to the original.

Sort of how the nature of the astral/dream reality functions (one strange scenario after another, eventually becoming totally different from what it started from) and how these shape shifting beings function. From my own experience, and from what I've read from other people, they never appear EXACTLY the same way twice. Usually only strong similarities between one event of interaction and another. But also, this relates to how some people study their appearance, it seems to be continually changing in a subtle way. Same when you look at your hand while in the astral...it may appear to start melting or become distorted.
Same goes for when you look at a clock while in a dream...you look away, look back, the time has changed.
But what is creating this representation in the first place? If it's an interpretation of your own mind to make sense of the "feeling" you getting from an entity, then why does the representation change? There are a few things that don't seem to make sense...

I can spot a lot of similarities between many different types (or at least they seem to be different types) of "entities" I've interacted with... And many of them felt different from one another...however, the similarities between them gives a possibility that they are in fact the exact same entity.
One huge giveaway is one interaction with what I thought was my 'spirit guide', standing by my bed, and I could feel a friendly warm feeling coming off her..But when I told her "I have to find a way to be rid of these negative beings" She responded "Oh really?" and gave me an dark/evil flirtatious grin that I've seen many times before from different beings. I could feel a racking vibration in my head. So not only are they able to manipulate their image, but also the feeling they give off...the question is: what is to separate them from one another? A dream can seem pretty pleasant, then become nightmarish out of nowhere.

Perhaps it is an illusory reality, but not from one's own mind, but from something external creating the illusion which the person becomes aware of?

I'm not saying that this is the construct of the astral plane in it's entirety, because this guy referred to something called "Metas". I've been told a couple of times while APing that "astral beings aren't real". That's not the words this guy used but can pretty be said to mean the same thing. :P

This person who told me would have had to have been a real person within this reality in order to tell me...unless the these illusory beings are somehow self aware? Or as you said it, part of myself. It makes my head hurt...

This doesn't explain the human aura and energy/chakra system, which from my own experience, is probably real. And there is feeling of chills, vibrations, buzzing, breezes, which everyone seems to get during these experiences...so hmmmmmmmmmmm

Originally Posted by earthatic

Hello!
No, the man in the dream wasn't named "Meta", he was stating that the astral beings are called "Metas" and that dreams are "Metaprogramming" relating to their nature as what they really are.

Whoops! My bad!

Originally Posted by earthatic

When you create new layers of abstraction between the thing or event, you are becoming more meta.

Absolutely - because your perception is abstraction to begin with. Obviously, abstractions of abstractions are even more abstract.

Originally Posted by earthatic

The problem with being meta is that if you add sufficient layers of abstraction or complexity between the original event and the convenient abstractions you create to clarify or explain it, you eventually lose all connection to the original.

Exactly - so the trick is to get to the fundamental perception, and to understand that perception for what it is.

Originally Posted by earthatic

Sort of how the nature of the astral/dream reality functions (one strange scenario after another, eventually becoming totally different from what it started from) and how these shape shifting beings function. From my own experience, and from what I've read from other people, they never appear EXACTLY the same way twice. Usually only strong similarities between one event of interaction and another. But also, this relates to how some people study their appearance, it seems to be continually changing in a subtle way. Same when you look at your hand while in the astral...it may appear to start melting or become distorted.
Same goes for when you look at a clock while in a dream...you look away, look back, the time has changed.

Why should they stay the same? It is a dynamic world we inhabit.

Expecting the astral to behave like the physical is a very problematic expectation. The astral is not the physical. Sure, pay attention to the signposts so you you can keep oriented in consciousness, but otherwise pay attention to what else these variations are telling you.

Notice when your hand melts: you are giving it your attention because you are testing that reality - and you get your answer. Otherwise, when do you see your hand melt (Never)?? Notice that time is unstable - in the astral you are beyond time, and that is what it is showing you. Stability is a property inherent in physical reality - it is a necessity in our shared evolving universe. NOT SO in the astral. In the astral perception itself is a medium, and it will give you every indication of this when you test it.

Originally Posted by earthatic

But what is creating this representation in the first place? If it's an interpretation of your own mind to make sense of the "feeling" you getting from an entity, then why does the representation change? There are a few things that don't seem to make sense...

Originally Posted by earthatic

One huge giveaway is one interaction with what I thought was my 'spirit guide', standing by my bed, and I could feel a friendly warm feeling coming off her..But when I told her "I have to find a way to be rid of these negative beings" She responded "Oh really?" and gave me an dark/evil flirtatious grin that I've seen many times before from different beings.

The astral is a very plastic and dynamic environment which responds immediately to intent and changing situation.

You should always be very cognizant of an entity's intent but your experience would seem to indicate something deeper is at work. Life often tests us and strengthens us through stressful situations. If the worst you got was an evil/flirtatious grin I think the thing to concentrate on here would be your fear itself. I would recommend doing some research/reading on the shadow self. I could see breaking the knowledge of this to you gently as being a possibility here.

Originally Posted by earthatic

Perhaps it is an illusory reality, but not from one's own mind, but from something external creating the illusion which the person becomes aware of?

Absolutely! This would be an example of what I termed 'Externally informed'.

Originally Posted by earthatic

I'm not saying that this is the construct of the astral plane in it's entirety, because this guy referred to something called "Metas". I've been told a couple of times while APing that "astral beings aren't real". That's not the words this guy used but can pretty be said to mean the same thing. :P

This person who told me would have had to have been a real person within this reality in order to tell me...unless the these illusory beings are somehow self aware? It makes my head hurt...

This doesn't explain the human aura and energy/chakra system, which from my own experience, is probably real.

It can be confusing trying to distinguish what is real from what is perceived. Just know that what you perceive is NOT the thing itself, but a perceptual reflection within your mind.

For example, there are in existence several different chakra systems and many interpretations of each - but yes your experience is real absolutely! The thing to understand is that a chakra or aura is a perceptual metaphor of a very REAL and VITAL process. What you perceive as a chakra is essentially your subconscious language (interpretation) for it, but have NO DOUBT it is just as real as anybody else's perception of their chakra, even if the description differs from yours considerably.

[Squatchit]

Originally Posted by Humm

Notice when your hand melts: you are giving it your attention because you are testing that reality - and you get your answer. Otherwise, when do you see your hand melt (Never)?? Notice that time is unstable - in the astral you are beyond time, and that is what it is showing you. Stability is a property inherent in physical reality - it is a necessity in our shared evolving universe. NOT SO in the astral. In the astral perception itself is a medium, and it will give you every indication of this when you test it.

What you say seems so glaringly obvious. However, I've been faffing around for eight years looking at clocks and wondering why the time never remains the same.... Saying that, I've used it to my advantage as a lucid trigger, so it's not all bad.

Sheesh. It's very nice to meet you.

Squatch

Good to meet you too Squatchit.

Originally Posted by Humm

Why should they stay the same? It is a dynamic world we inhabit.

Expecting the astral to behave like the physical is a very problematic expectation. The astral is not the physical. Sure, pay attention to the signposts so you you can keep oriented in consciousness, but otherwise pay attention to what else these variations are telling you.


Notice when your hand melts: you are giving it your attention because you are testing that reality - and you get your answer. Otherwise, when do you see your hand melt (Never)?? Notice that time is unstable - in the astral you are beyond time, and that is what it is showing you. Stability is a property inherent in physical reality - it is a necessity in our shared evolving universe. NOT SO in the astral. In the astral perception itself is a medium, and it will give you every indication of this when you test it.

Yes, but why must it change in such a bizarre way? And what causes it to randomly shift into the form it does? It seems very difficult to stay in a consistent environment, you end up going from one 'plane' to another. You may find yourself in a neighborhood, and try to analyze what the houses look like. You'll see that the houses don't have any specific form and you will notice they change as soon as you attempt to analyze them. Same as when you look at a clock, or try to read a piece of writing.

Try to make it your intent to recreate a complex instrument...such as a piano. I guarantee no matter how much you concentrate on the specific order of black keys and white keys, knowing which key sounds like what, and attempting to play a song you know on that piano...it would be impossible to do so. But if you were to just go up to a table in the astral and use your fingers to imaginatively play a piano on the surface of the table without trying to make it sound like anything, you could make an interesting piece of music that would be impossible to recreate in real life. The sound of the notes will change into something else without you even wanting it to happen. This is how this place functions. When you attempt to analyze something, you try to make sense of it, and it turns from one abstract concept into another because there is no concrete concepts that exist there, only abstract ones that never stay the same. This is only relating to imagery, sounds, ect...who says the feeling you get off something should be any different? It's not. This is exactly the point I am trying to make. It is a meta-reality

You can even join your awareness and astral being with another being (like demonic possession) and attempt to influence one another...you can even blend into an object within the astral, like a pillow...and become the pillow. So what is it that is separating you? It is only intent itself.

You should always be very cognizant of an entity's intent but your experience would seem to indicate something deeper is at work. Life often tests us and strengthens us through stressful situations. If the worst you got was an evil/flirtatious grin I think the thing to concentrate on here would be your fear itself. I would recommend doing some research/reading on the shadow self. I could see breaking the knowledge of this to you gently as being a possibility here.

I have read the article before. I am so used to this stuff, I don't feel afraid when I see any frightening. It just feels awkward.

It can be confusing trying to distinguish what is real from what is perceived. Just know that what you perceive is NOT the thing itself, but a perceptual reflection within your mind.

Exactly.

Ah, earthatic (love that name! ), I think I begin to see where you are coming from.

I have to admit I have not experienced what you describe to the extent that you do, but then I tend to set a general goal and then let the astral reveal to me what it wants.

Your concern seems to be overtly about form, but to me the astral is really all about connection and process. To me, the form, the actions, the events - EVERY element of the experience IS the message, and the message can have many levels and ancillary meanings, depending on the perspective I take in various stages of reflection.

For example, did you endeavor to manifest an old man to explain the 'Metas' to you? I doubt you determined the specifics there, though that is the kind of thing I would expect if I had asked for a guide or a teaching - and that seemed to be a stable enough experience for you. Your experiments in manifestation are very interesting, but IMO such experiences are really the province of lucid dreaming or just dream play.

What is the astral to you? What is the significance of it - it's purpose? IME, how I look at something has a lot to do with how I see it.

Originally Posted by Humm

Ah, earthatic (love that name! ), I think I begin to see where you are coming from.

I have to admit I have not experienced what you describe to the extent that you do, but then I tend to set a general goal and then let the astral reveal to me what it wants.

Your concern seems to be overtly about form, but to me the astral is really all about connection and process. To me, the form, the actions, the events - EVERY element of the experience IS the message, and the message can have many levels and ancillary meanings, depending on the perspective I take in various stages of reflection.

That is an interesting way of looking at it! I am talking about the form being abstract and ever changing, but for what purpose is it done this way?

For example, did you endeavor to manifest an old man to explain the 'Metas' to you? I doubt you determined the specifics there, though that is the kind of thing I would expect if I had asked for a guide or a teaching - and that seemed to be a stable enough experience for you. Your experiments in manifestation are very interesting, but IMO such experiences are really the province of lucid dreaming or just dream play.

The old man had a scruffy white beard and long white hair, but he looked youthful for some reason.

I'll explain in detail what happened. When I exited my body, I decided to stand by my window and observe what was going on outside of my home ...instead of exploring like I usually do. I felt spaced out as I stood watching for a few minutes. I didn't see anything interesting. Suddenly my window became larger and I felt insecure because I was no longer concealed and had no privacy. Next thing I know, I am in a moving car sitting next to a girl with wet hair and a man who was driving in the front. I opened the car door and saw the concrete passing very fast, but I jumped out anyway.
I felt threatened as the car followed me closely down the street as if it was trying to run me over. So I jumped on top of a car in a parking lot. The car stopped, and the two individuals walked out. The girl literally jumped up toward me and I caught her in my arms as if she already assumed I was going to catch her, and I immediately recognized her as a very troublesome entity who's been bothering me for a long time. Her face was close to mine and she said "You're holding me very tightly.".
I then thought out loud "What am I supposed to be doing right now?", I turned to the man and asked him "How do I get rid of negative astral beings?" We were walking side by side as I was carrying the girl and he responded "There are no real astral beings. Technically, you cannot get rid of them. None of your attempts have worked, and it doesn't matter if you are a Buddhist, Hindu, or Christian. There (or they) are only 'Metas'." (I have been recently thinking about the similarities between different religions). He was speaking quickly and I thought he said "minutes". He went on "They're called 'Metas'. These dreams are metaprogramming. The feeling of situations being real or fake is just an illusion." I was then put back into my body, and was unsure of what he really meant by using the term 'meta', so I looked up the definition. What he said makes a lot of sense and it definitely describes the nature of the astral. This goes with something I heard a while ago when a being told me something about people being given answers to questions in their dreams, but it is too abstract for them to understand.

[/quote]

What is the astral to you? What is the significance of it - it's purpose? IME, how I look at something has a lot to do with how I see it.

It's a very mysterious place to say the least. Communication and emotions can feel extremely deep and intense. Experiences can be very profound. It's true nature is obscure. I guess wondering what it's purpose serves is the same as wondering what the purpose physical reality serves. The reason for it being here simply must be for us to experience it and learn from it. ^^

Let me say again - My goodness earthatic, you do like to bring on the deep ones!

I want to thank you for your replies. I SO appreciate someone who is genuinely curious - this often makes me think too! IMO, far too few people retain a genuine curiosity about anything, which is a shame.

And 'thinking' I have been, ever since you posted this yesterday. My goodness - where to begin?? The scope of your questions are really quite vast!

Originally Posted by earthatic

That is an interesting way of looking at it! I am talking about the form being abstract and ever changing, but for what purpose is it done this way?

I think you already answered yourself:

Originally Posted by earthatic

..."They're called 'Metas'. These dreams are metaprogramming. The feeling of situations being real or fake is just an illusion." I was then put back into my body, and was unsure of what he really meant by using the term 'meta', so I looked up the definition. What he said makes a lot of sense and it definitely describes the nature of the astral. This goes with something I heard a while ago when a being told me something about people being given answers to questions in their dreams, but it is too abstract for them to understand.

The astral has been called a transcendent or alternate consciousness. Transcending what? Alternately what?

As above, so below. In the physical, form follows function. In the astral, function follows form.

Look below the surface.