what is the purpose of samsara?

from my limited knowledge, i gather that all living beings evolve thru 8.4 million species and finally are born as human beings when they can strive for moksha. but if a human evolved from a lower form of life how was his/ her destiny in the first life as a human decided? it is understandable that after acquiring human form his future lives were based on past karma. but then how did it all begin? anyone has thoughts on this?

[Chrysaetos]

As the universe is immense, how do you know the number of species?
The number can't be know either, because... species evolve. When is one species different from another? The existence of subspecies makes it kinda complicated..

Do the Vedas recognize the Neanderthal? Other primates? Jaguars? Polar bears? T-Rex?

They don't. The Vedas only speak about animals and plants from the Indian subcontinent, therefore it is cultural limited scripture.

Your question is a good one. Where was the ''soul'' before it was the ''lowest'' life form?
The believers will say ''oh somewhere else along the wheel'' but this is no proper answer. It is circular reasoning.

The believer will also say ''there is/was no beginning'' but that kinda destroys the whole idea of reaching an end. If there is an end and final solution to so called karma and suffering, there has to be a cause. It is simply preposterous to think that samsara exists for no apparent reason.

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

As the universe is immense, how do you know the number of species?
The number can't be know either, because... species evolve. When is one species different from another? The existence of subspecies makes it kinda complicated..

Do the Vedas recognize the Neanderthal? Other primates? Jaguars? Polar bears? T-Rex?

They don't. The Vedas only speak about animals and plants from the Indian subcontinent, therefore it is cultural limited scripture.

Your question is a good one. Where was the ''soul'' before it was the ''lowest'' life form?
The believers will say ''oh somewhere else along the wheel'' but this is no proper answer. It is circular reasoning.

The believer will also say ''there is/was no beginning'' but that kinda destroys the whole idea of reaching an end. If there is an end and final solution to so called karma and suffering, there has to be a cause. It is simply preposterous to think that samsara exists for no apparent reason.

Everything exists for a logical necessity is the best explanation I can give.

ok without getting into specifics – 8.4 million species or more – the question remains - how did we get here?

there are other points to ponder – according to 1 belief, all living being i.e. souls are part and parcel of the supersoul. we are apparently in this samsara because of our ego – like a spark thinking “i am the fire” (of which it is a miniscule part) or a drop in the ocean thinking “i am the ocean”. granted that we are suffering in samsara due to ignorance/ ego. but then why doesn't the creator enlighten us or negate our ego? why repeated births and deaths and the ever-attendant agony ?

Originally Posted by aghora

ok without getting into specifics – 8.4 million species or more – the question remains - how did we get here?

Through a happy accident maybe?

[peteyzen]

before this, we were one with god, pure conscious light. we wanted to experience life in a physical form and so a part of us (as the divine) created this universe and came to have that experience. We did this by slowing down our vibrationsl rate to create matter, we are now on the opposite journey. As regards the development of souls, with the lower conscious life forms (and that includes animlas) we operate in soul groups so many souls group together to form a cat for example, then many cat souls, when they have grown in experience groupo together after death and retunr as a higher form until eventually we reach a human incarnation. once reached we cannot revert back to an animal soul as some scriptures seem to indicate.
thats what i believe anyway.
hope that helps

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by aghora

there are other points to ponder – according to 1 belief, all living being i.e. souls are part and parcel of the supersoul. we are apparently in this samsara because of our ego – like a spark thinking “i am the fire” (of which it is a miniscule part) or a drop in the ocean thinking “i am the ocean”. granted that we are suffering in samsara due to ignorance/ ego. but then why doesn't the creator enlighten us or negate our ego? why repeated births and deaths and the ever-attendant agony ?

The whole concept of samsara only works if you accept that life is all about suffering and nature = evil, pleasure = evil, ego = evil.
You need a negative attitude towards life to accept samsara.

If we are in samsara because of ''our ego'', how did that one happen?
You can dig as far as you can but the questions will never stop.

Life's a mystery. And all scripture, spiritual beliefs, and guru's are fallible.

[peteyzen]

Originally Posted by aghora

ok without getting into specifics – 8.4 million species or more – the question remains - how did we get here?

there are other points to ponder – according to 1 belief, all living being i.e. souls are part and parcel of the supersoul. we are apparently in this samsara because of our ego – like a spark thinking “i am the fire” (of which it is a miniscule part) or a drop in the ocean thinking “i am the ocean”. granted that we are suffering in samsara due to ignorance/ ego. but then why doesn't the creator enlighten us or negate our ego? why repeated births and deaths and the ever-attendant agony ?

great question aghora,
we wanted this experience , not just one life but thousands, and as we develop, and become ready to return to our true nature (god), we become interested and aware of spirituality, in any of its many froms, and we start to work our way back, be that through religions or personal endeavour, this may take many life times. The thing to remember is, we are the creator, we wanted this. Its hard now to see it from the perspective of just one life, one that may have been very hard, but if reincarnation is true, then each life is fleeting, all a small part of the massive jig saw of our time here. I often think of it like a computer game, we come down try, get it wrong die, and then start again. as our skills improve we move swifter, until we reach the end.
lol, works for me anyway he he

Originally Posted by peteyzen

great question aghora,
we wanted this experience , not just one life but thousands, and as we develop, and become ready to return to our true nature (god), we become interested and aware of spirituality, in any of its many froms, and we start to work our way back, be that through religions or personal endeavour, this may take many life times. The thing to remember is, we are the creator, we wanted this. Its hard now to see it from the perspective of just one life, one that may have been very hard, but if reincarnation is true, then each life is fleeting, all a small part of the massive jig saw of our time here. I often think of it like a computer game, we come down try, get it wrong die, and then start again. as our skills improve we move swifter, until we reach the end.
lol, works for me anyway he he

The ladder scheme? Reminds me of some Japanese video games with multiple endings. After you beat the game, you get some stat bonuses based on your progress from the previous play.