The Oneness enigma

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

From the posts it would appear that there is a mismatch in understanding each other on this. Usage of words assigning different meanings to them may be one reason. Let’s take it slow to at least understand what is being attempted to be said ... the post becomes long this way which I don’t like myself but it can’t be helped.

I offer this perspective based upon direct experience as well as understanding :-

We are a distinct awareness (soul, spirit) interconnected with Universal consciousness. We are not the body ... only in temporary occupation of it as a vehicle for earth life experience.

The earth domain prompts that only a certain bandwidth of vibration be employed by restricting the senses of the body therein as a default setting.

Identifying with limitation associated with the body we begin to believe that the body is all there is ... body meaning thought & senses. This is delusion or ignorance.

There being a polarity in duality ... we can however, in this seeming limitation rotate the polarity of our awareness temporarily confined in the body as in-form consciousness. We do this by resting analytical thought and encouraging intuition. The former is restricted to in-form consciousnesses or the ego, whilst intuition to Universal consciousnesses. The ego discourages us* (*pure awareness) to use intuition since intuition has no ego as doer, while fragmented analytical thought has the ego as the doer. In fact, senses too have an internal polarity but we have mostly used the pole pointed outwards ... external.

With this preamble, knowing that we are pure awareness, we are no longer deluded into believing that we are the ego or let us say, the body in-form consciousness. We use the body for what it is ... an instrument but do not associate with it. Without us, the body dies upon us as awareness withdrawing itself from the body.

Upon our attention then no longer caught up in issues of the ego, we vibrationally ascend ... perhaps that is a wrong way to put it ... we reclaim our innate divinity within the body being no longer deluded. We are the rider, ego is the horse. Not the other way around. So we experience inner alignment. The manner may vary from person to person. It could be energy rising in what is called the kundalini energising the body to accept higher frequencies of vibration or it could be descent of divine grace through each pore of our body ... or both ... I think both happen.

Either way, we then have what is called as the oneness experience when we as awareness rise from root to crown and through an orifice through it into space. (there may be other ways ...). In the oneness field, the essence of which is bliss, we are dissolved yet distinct. We are as He but not He Himself. The oneness experience is also within form ... after all, there being no here or there.

Within the void as it is popularly called, we may just be as pure awareness or as oneness communicate with the Oneness (God/yet higher awareness). Our ‘as oneness’ means that being drenched in divine love, our communication within this field may not have any aspect other than reflecting selfless love. There is here no earthy agenda left.

We may be still and see an ascended being or a Godlike form possibly in the shape of what we subconsciously believe. We may even merge within the form to see the dweller within His heart where piercing the veil, we may be stunned to see God Himself. Likewise, in the void of fullness within seeming nothingness we may hear the unstruck sound Aum.

I can affirm the above as valid in my direct experience.

Now, back to body form with the above knowing, what is felt is that we are all interconnected yes. Definitely. What one does impacts all. Yet what seems to be conveyed by the oneness doctrine that there is a singular one consciousness alone ... this seems incorrect. Therefore, I’d say interconnectedness ... not oneness.

That is the question ... or not a question ... a statement inviting purposeful response ... one being that beyond the void there is .... actual reality! I confess I’m not there then. Or perhaps, after the experience we need time for assimilation of the experience.

Thanks for listening

***

[davidsun]

Thank you for the comprehensive clarification of what you mean, Seeker. I still think you don't get, or at least you are choosing(?) to deflect and so avoid engaging with what I mean. Re the following snippet from your post, for example:

There being a polarity in duality ... we can however, in this seeming limitation rotate the polarity of our awareness temporarily confined in the body as in-form consciousness. We do this by resting analytical thought and encouraging intuition. The former is restricted to in-form consciousnesses or the ego, whilst intuition to Universal consciousnesses. The ego discourages us* (*pure awareness) to use intuition since intuition has no ego as doer, while fragmented analytical thought has the ego as the doer. In fact, senses too have an internal polarity but we have mostly used the pole pointed outwards ... external.

You are still perseverating in cleaving (i.e. separating) what you call 'pure' awareness from its earthly soul-presence. 'Awareness' (which, in my view is just a dynamic 'feature' of what I call 'mind', which in turn is in a faculty/power of 'soul' and so inseperable from it) is never 'pure' in the way you mean, in the sense of a 'thing' that exists or can exist by itself. It is always connected to and so 'colored' by a soul's gestalt/constellation -- initially one might say by the soul gestalt/constellation of our 'Creator' and then by its 'rays' ... the infinitely diverse, various gestalts/constellations of each and every one of our (derivative!) souls in and out of 'worldly' existence.

I hope you 'get' the fact that since this is my view, I 'see' your hanging on to the idea of 'pure' awareness as being an (childishly) 'idealistic' (false-ideal! idolatory!) clinging to something that is unreal (which can never be 'real'!), and hence an escapist (from reality) delusion. This doesn't mean that our awareness is confined to our 'bodies'. It just means that after we die, for example, our 'awareness' will still be a function of (i.e. a 'feature' of 'mind' that is deployed by) our souls which will always have a vibration/color of their 'own', just as the entirety of Creation will always be a 'feature' of Life that reflect the 'vibe' of our Creators' SOUL.

The ideal of being 'pure' is a boondoggle, IOW, Though the flavors and concentrations of 'sugar' may vary, there is only sugar-water (the sugar and the water are inseparable), IOW. This is the Oneness and the Interconcectedness of Being (all being!), which you are denying and on a Quixotic mission to 'get' 'out' of, IMO. Your response (which I deeply appreciate in genuineness of) does not (and IMO, because of your premises cannot) address this fact.

'Pure' implies that personal 'existence' on this 'plane' and/ou other 'planes' is 'impure' by 'nature', which it isn't, Bro. "There is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." (Romans Ch.14)

Regarding your 'ranking' of logic and intuition: Intuition and logic are just different ways of accessing and processing info. 'Intuition' is also subject to being 'wrong' or 'incomplete', btw. From my book:

"One shouldn’t therefore decide it is better to just rely on what is thought of as intuition instead. Though spontaneously arising thought-feeling gestalts and prompts may frequently be totally appropriate and Life-affirming, they are often purely reflexive phenomena, like the excitement of Pavlov’s dogs upon hearing a familiar-sounding bell, heavily influenced by, if not completely a function of, prior patterns of perception and conditioning. As demonstrated by the fact that acclaimed clairvoyants also make erroneous pronouncements, intuition is not a totally trustworthy indication. Even the most impressive revelation does not derive from direct perception of Life’s actual layout, but is a subjective ‘projection’ based on what is ‘alive’ in the domain of one’s personal or group psyche at the moment."

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Thanks for your inputs David. No, awareness is independent of the mind unless by your definition mind is awareness.

Just as the heart and head lines on our palm usually do not meet, let’s leave it at that.

***

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Just as the heart and head lines on our palm usually do not meet, let’s leave it at that.

Yes, indeedy. Including the fact that the idea of 'purity' (awareness devoid of any 'sugar' ) is a complete non-starter with me. Thanks for the game.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes, indeedy. Including the fact that the idea of 'purity' (awareness devoid of any 'sugar' ) is a complete non-starter with me. Thanks for the game.

***

You are most welcome to a game of ping pong anytime again!

***

Hello Unseeking and David or David and Unseeking,

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***
Thanks for your inputs David. No, awareness is independent of the mind unless by your definition mind is awareness.
Just as the heart and head lines on our palm usually do not meet, let’s leave it at that.
***

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes, indeedy. Including the fact that the idea of 'purity' (awareness devoid of any 'sugar' ) is a complete non-starter with me. Thanks for the game.

As a living being and as a rainbow body, I can understand/experiment/Be both of your point of view.

But in both there are missing pieces of the puzzle to understand fully the Universe. Nothing, to Be, must have created the Universe for a reason I cannot grasp fully with my apparatus, if the universe was created from Nothing. It could have also always been there with Nothing.

As a living body I am still missing subtle mental tools, that some may call the supramental. As a rainbow body they are missing colors to my rainbow, like they are missing colors in the Sun light spectrum.

To take the example of sugar water, I will use instead the one of our salted sea.

With heat, the process of life and death, the water only of the sea evaporates and leaves the salt behind making the solution denser and denser in salt. Like the rainbow body, for some, at the moment of death that leaves behind only the nails and hair and all the rest of the world behind. I do not believe that Nothing “wanted” to create that sea, to only leave behind crystals of salt at the bottom of the sea when all the water will have evaporated.

On the other side, the elements in the sea, evolved to give dolphins, for example, that can breathe the humid air and enjoy the water solution in a process some call creative evolution. Human appeared that are still developing their mental apparatus in the attempt to understand fully this sea, this universe. In the belief that a full understanding will come at one point in evolution without having to evaporate all the water in the sea and only leave behind crystallised minerals.

The work can be done both ways, from Bliss or from Joy of Life, to finally come to understand fully why we are here.

Enjoy!

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello Unseeking and David or David and Unseeking,




As a living being and as a rainbow body, I can understand/experiment/Be both of your point of view.

But in both there are missing pieces of the puzzle to understand fully the Universe. Nothing, to Be, must have created the Universe for a reason I cannot grasp fully with my apparatus, if the universe was created from Nothing. It could have also always been there with Nothing.

As a living body I am still missing subtle mental tools, that some may call the supramental. As a rainbow body they are missing colors to my rainbow, like they are missing colors in the Sun light spectrum.

To take the example of sugar water, I will use instead the one of our salted sea.

With heat, the process of life and death, the water only of the sea evaporates and leaves the salt behind making the solution denser and denser in salt. Like the rainbow body, for some, at the moment of death that leaves behind only the nails and hair and all the rest of the world behind. I do not believe that Nothing “wanted” to create that sea, to only leave behind crystals of salt at the bottom of the sea when all the water will have evaporated.

On the other side, the elements in the sea, evolved to give dolphins, for example, that can breathe the humid air and enjoy the water solution in a process some call creative evolution. Human appeared that are still developing their mental apparatus in the attempt to understand fully this sea, this universe. In the belief that a full understanding will come at one point in evolution without having to evaporate all the water in the sea and only leave behind crystallised minerals.

The work can be done both ways, from Bliss or from Joy of Life, to finally come to understand fully why we are here.

Enjoy!

***

That’s interesting as well as illuminating to know. So in a sense of being, do you feel a continuity of oneness without separateness both when normal waking body state as well as in meditation?

***

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Legrand

But in both there are missing pieces of the puzzle to understand fully the Universe. Nothing, to Be, must have created the Universe for a reason I cannot grasp fully with my apparatus.

Hello Legrand - I am in synch with you on this score. Given the punyness of our 'apparati' we can only 'humbly' think and/or intuit and speculate (make our 'best' uncertain bets) about said 'reason'.

Originally Posted by Legrand

if the universe was created from Nothing. It could have also always been there with Nothing.

Yes, in the sense that a 'dream' which is initially 'undreampt' must have e-merged (into an 'action'-movie) from the 'dreamer'.
...

Originally Posted by Legrand

To take the example of sugar water, I will use instead the one of our salted sea. With heat, the process of life and death, the water only of the sea evaporates and leaves the salt behind making the solution denser and denser in salt. Like the rainbow body, for some, at the moment of death that leaves behind only the nails and hair and all the rest of the world behind. I do not believe that Nothing “wanted” to create that sea, to only leave behind crystals of salt at the bottom of the sea when all the water will have evaporated.

Ahh, but your analogy operationally incorporates the same (solid)-sugar-is-something-that-can-be-separated-from-(oceanic-fluid)-water fallacy that the Unseeker (also) believes to be really true. IMO, you fail to 'see' (acknowledge?) the Oneness of ALL Life-Flow in doing so. Aspects of The (Dream) Flow may indeed be transformed (in terms of their psychospiritual 'color' or 'flavor'), but no aspect The (Dream) Flow is ever not a part of it. The idea that separation (i.e. disconnection) is possible is actually a 'heresy' (in terms of the Oneness theory , that is!). Something can only be 'left behind' figuratively speaking, not literally (i.e. not really!) Therefore:

Originally Posted by Legrand

On the other side, the elements in the sea, evolved to give dolphins, for example, that can breathe the humid air and enjoy the water solution in a process some call creative evolution. Human appeared that are still developing their mental apparatus in the attempt to understand fully this sea, this universe. In the belief that a full understanding will come at one point in evolution without having to evaporate all the water in the sea and only leave behind crystallised minerals.

is a false 'dream' (in the sense of it being missleading when it comes to the 'original' dream's real 'destiny').

Originally Posted by Legrand

The work can be done both ways, from Bliss or from Joy of Life, to finally come to understand fully why we are here.

I agree with this. Analagous to the way one can 'look at' and 'listen to' (something or other) to try to understand what it is about. Ideally (IMO) one would employ both 'knowledge' modalities.

Originally Posted by Legrand

Enjoy!

I would say Love and Enjoy - but that's just 'splitting hairs'.

Feels good, having another thoughtful player on stage.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

There being a polarity in duality ... we can however, in this seeming limitation rotate the polarity of our awareness temporarily confined in the body as in-form consciousness. We do this by resting analytical thought and encouraging intuition. The former is restricted to in-form consciousnesses or the ego, whilst intuition to Universal consciousnesses. The ego discourages us* (*pure awareness) to use intuition since intuition has no ego as doer, while fragmented analytical thought has the ego as the doer. In fact, senses too have an internal polarity but we have mostly used the pole pointed outwards ... external.

Good description.

Authentic spiritual work leads to increasing subjectivity, e.g., knowing by identity, vs. the false objectivity of ego/sense which is nothing other than limitation.


~ J

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by utopiandreamchild

then there is no thing to search for any more

Nothing to search for and no one there to search as well.

One is searching for a state of being without searching or a searcher, without self, free of the concepts of time and becoming and free of the experience carrying such concepts produces. If there is no time or self to interpret, one cannot become or be anything other than what is, and what is, is determined by how aware and inwardly free we are in this now. You can't open a window to let a fly outside if you are unaware the fly is here.

We did not create the "fly," but we created the one that is affected by it, that focuses on it, that makes it an important part of now. If we see such things are not real or true or important, then there is no more need for a window to get rid of them.

What was missing or needed? Just seeing the two elements of that are illusions. The doer and that which needs to be done. The doer is a voice, the mind, the running commentary in our minds that focuses on this fictional created self. It is what moves through time from one moment to the next. It has a history and a future. It lives in time. But right now it can be dropped. One can be selfless present to what is here before mind. Present with what I am before mind.