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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 25-04-2017, 09:54 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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The Truth Trap.

You may never know what may be hidden from you that contradicts what you believe to be true. (See the parable of the highwayman by Soren Kierkegaarde).Trancending the idea that truth can be known is the only way out of this trap. The mind is then free to resonate with solutions it may find to the problems the organism gives it to solve, including the spiritual search, without the burden of the impossible task of first having to establish whether a solution is true
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  #2  
Old 25-04-2017, 09:56 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You may never know what may be hidden from you that contradicts what you believe to be true. (See the parable of the highwayman by Soren Kierkegaarde).Trancending the idea that truth can be known is the only way out of this trap. The mind is then free to resonate with solutions it may find to the problems the organism gives it to solve, including the spiritual search, without the burden of the impossible task of first having to establish whether a solution is true

gasp! you are telling me that I and the people like me don't know the absolute truth well enough to know what is best for everyone around us? And you are saying the idea they should do as I and the people like me say doesn't hold water? gasp! heretic! gasp! Obviously you have no clue about the real truth gasp!

(hehehe)
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  #3  
Old 26-04-2017, 12:36 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
gasp! you are telling me that I and the people like me don't know the absolute truth well enough to know what is best for everyone around us? And you are saying the idea they should do as I and the people like me say doesn't hold water? gasp! heretic! gasp! Obviously you have no clue about the real truth gasp!

(hehehe)

That would depend on whether you know the truth, If you do then yes I am. me and Soren Kieregaarde both:) Check it out, but gently as defenses are in place for very good reasons

:)

Last edited by Iamit : 26-04-2017 at 01:57 AM.
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  #4  
Old 26-04-2017, 06:17 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
You may never know what may be hidden from you that contradicts what you believe to be true. (See the parable of the highwayman by Soren Kierkegaarde).Trancending the idea that truth can be known is the only way out of this trap. The mind is then free to resonate with solutions it may find to the problems the organism gives it to solve, including the spiritual search, without the burden of the impossible task of first having to establish whether a solution is true

Belief is a cage. Belief is seeking to attain a permanent sentiment of truth, thus seeking safety, seeking 'a home' which necessarily is in continuous conflict with doubt since in actuality there isn't any truth.
Once one has identified through introspection this factor of mind which subjectively projects truth onto where objectively no truth can be found one grasps what it means when it is said that "all phenomena are empty of inherent existence and thus empty of truth".

Now that what I have expressed, is that true? No, since no truth can be found in the object of mind expressed although when not being able to perceive its emptiness this factor of mind may again project truth onto this object so that it may appear as 'false truth' so to say. What I have expressed is an experience based on rational analysis and corresponding analytical meditation ... believe it or not

Of course the rational method I mentioned to cut through all 'truth entanglements' and to pacify the innate truth habits isn't applicable for all individuals because logic and rationality do not resonate with all individuals equally.
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  #5  
Old 26-04-2017, 06:40 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Belief is a cage. Belief is seeking to attain a permanent sentiment of truth, thus seeking safety, seeking 'a home' which necessarily is in continuous conflict with doubt since in actuality there isn't any truth.

Sounds like a contradiction in terms where 'reality' is a truth value, but meaning is a sticky business at the best of times. (Yes I know you claim it is inherently empty teehee, which by definition, ironically, isn't true - BooM).


Quote:
Once one has identified through introspection this factor of mind which subjectively projects truth onto where objectively no truth can be found one grasps what it means when it is said that "all phenomena are empty of inherent existence and thus empty of truth".

Now that what I have expressed, is that true? No, since no truth can be found in the object of mind expressed although when not being able to perceive its emptiness this factor of mind may again project truth onto this object so that it may appear as 'false truth' so to say. What I have expressed is an experience based on rational analysis and corresponding analytical meditation ... believe it or not

Very Cartesian in its form.
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  #6  
Old 26-04-2017, 06:51 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
(Yes I know you claim it is inherently empty teehee, which by definition, ironically, isn't true - BooM).
The expression 'isn't true' is appropriate because no truth can be found in the object/phenomenon analytically.
So it 'isn't true' although it may appear to be true or may appear as a claim of truth to a mind that hasn't yet identified its own truth-projecting factor.
From rational analysis follows the way in which language is applied. And of course rational analysis is based on or derived from language in that it is conceptual thinking.
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  #7  
Old 26-04-2017, 09:46 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Belief is a cage. Belief is seeking to attain a permanent sentiment of truth, thus seeking safety, seeking 'a home' which necessarily is in continuous conflict with doubt since in actuality there isn't any truth.
Once one has identified through introspection this factor of mind which subjectively projects truth onto where objectively no truth can be found one grasps what it means when it is said that "all phenomena are empty of inherent existence and thus empty of truth".

Now that what I have expressed, is that true? No, since no truth can be found in the object of mind expressed although when not being able to perceive its emptiness this factor of mind may again project truth onto this object so that it may appear as 'false truth' so to say. What I have expressed is an experience based on rational analysis and corresponding analytical meditation ... believe it or not

Of course the rational method I mentioned to cut through all 'truth entanglements' and to pacify the innate truth habits isn't applicable for all individuals because logic and rationality do not resonate with all individuals equally.

In view of all the conditioning we have endured, believing introspection as somehow free from that conditioning is easily challenged. This is always the case when one believes something to be true, in this case the validity of introspection. However if it was merely a resonance with an idea that introspection might work to solve whatever problem the mind was faced with, that problem does not arise. Pragmatism versus dogmatism. Dogmatism about the truth of introspection works for you which is why you defend it and condemn any criticism of it intrinsic to other approaches.
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  #8  
Old 26-04-2017, 10:37 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
The expression 'isn't true' is appropriate because no truth can be found in the object/phenomenon analytically.
So it 'isn't true' although it may appear to be true or may appear as a claim of truth to a mind that hasn't yet identified its own truth-projecting factor.
From rational analysis follows the way in which language is applied. And of course rational analysis is based on or derived from language in that it is conceptual thinking.


like i even care. haha.
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  #9  
Old 26-04-2017, 09:33 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
In view of all the conditioning we have endured, believing introspection as somehow free from that conditioning is easily challenged. This is always the case when one believes something to be true, in this case the validity of introspection.
Hmh ... obviously you are not considering all that I have written ... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Belief is a cage. Belief is seeking to attain a permanent sentiment of truth, thus seeking safety, seeking 'a home' which necessarily is in continuous conflict with doubt since in actuality there isn't any truth.
Once one has identified through introspection this factor of mind which subjectively projects truth onto where objectively no truth can be found one grasps what it means when it is said that "all phenomena are empty of inherent existence and thus empty of truth".

Now that what I have expressed, is that true? No, since no truth can be found in the object of mind expressed although when not being able to perceive its emptiness this factor of mind may again project truth onto this object so that it may appear as 'false truth' so to say. What I have expressed is an experience based on rational analysis and corresponding analytical meditation ... believe it or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
However if it was merely a resonance with an idea that introspection might work to solve whatever problem the mind was faced with, that problem does not arise.
That is not correct. It is not the resonance with the idea that introspection might work but the conclusion of rational analysis is that phenomena cannot exist the way they appear to exist. Therefore what makes them appear the way they appear must be a mental factor. So it is the resonance with logical thinking and rationality which entails that introspection is the appropriate method for validation of the philosophical view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Pragmatism versus dogmatism.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Dogmatism about the truth of introspection works for you which is why you defend it and condemn any criticism of it intrinsic to other approaches.
No, there is no truth to be found in introspection and I do not have to defend it because I have certainty which does not depend on the view of others. And I do not condemn any criticism of it which is why I have written:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Of course the rational method I mentioned to cut through all 'truth entanglements' and to pacify the innate truth habits isn't applicable for all individuals because logic and rationality do not resonate with all individuals equally.

So any criticism is caused by non-resonance with logical thinking and rationality.
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  #10  
Old 26-04-2017, 09:35 PM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
like i even care. haha.
Sorry ... can't synthesize a consistent meaning based on your words. Maybe you elaborate?
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