Consciousness Mechanics

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Please riddle me this, Batman, Batmen and Batgirls...

So, everybody is telling me that there is no separation...people are all the same...there is no difference between "I" and "you".

Why is it then, that no two individual or personal universes are ever the same? and some have absolutely NO mutual 'points of reference' at ALL - how does one reconcile that within non duality?

How does one reconcile that which makes one person happy, can make another person totally miserable?

How does one reconcile that individual and personal beliefs can shape an individual reality SO much that it seems totally incomprehensible and irreconcilable to another who does NOT share them? even right down to basic sensory perceptions?

For some, the differences between human vs human are even MORE distinct than "Human vs Dog" or "Human vs Tree" so wherefore IS that "non separation" and "connection'? because I have always had difficulty seeing it because I am not Neurotypical.

When someone says there is no distinction between I and you what I hear is that the real I (spirit) and the real you(again,spirit) is the same ,not the lower self (body,mind etc.). And also since there can be NOTHING outside the spirit my spirit includes your lower self and your spirit includes my lower self so there is no separation.

Maybe you already thought of that ,did it help you ? ,let me know.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by captainamerica

When someone says there is no distinction between I and you what I hear is that the real I (spirit) and the real you(again,spirit) is the same ,not the lower self (body,mind etc.). And also since there can be NOTHING outside the spirit my spirit includes your lower self and your spirit includes my lower self so there is no separation.

Maybe you already thought of that ,did it help you ? ,let me know.

Thank you...this has already crossed my mind, that the Soul inside you, is exactly the same as the Soul inside me...but the expression of this Soul into conscious awareness differentiates each and every time it does...so to say that there is no difference or distinction, well, that just about nullifies everything on the physical plane, so that neither "I" nor "you' exists anyway...then, there is nothing to be 'different' and nothing to be "the same" either.

I don't know/understand how people can say that something wholly IS another thing, when it only contains a little piece or a spark of that thing...suffice to say, I am separate from others and others are separate from me in MY universe...see how this works?

[Shivani Devi]

As an addition to the above...another thing "I just don't get" which is all in the same vein.

So, my nephew has had influenza for a few days...coughing ALL night and he is on antibiotics and steroids now.

Yesterday evening, the temperature dropped severely and it started pouring with rain...so what does my nephew do? strip down to his undershirt and go and play handball with his mates on the road and drink like 3 cans of Red Bull.

So, I went out with; "nephew dear, don't you think you should be resting? shouldn't you put some warm clothes on? come and have some hearty food instead of living on energy drinks..." his reply;

"Nobody gets to tell ME what to do...I will do whatever I LIKE because I am fully ENTITLED to do it...so just leave me alone".

That night (last night), he had a severe asthma attack...coughing until he was choking...vomiting on the lavatory...seeking my assistance.

...and of course, all I could say was "suffer kid!! you brought all this on yourself and I hope you choke to death..." so wherefore is compassion? I don't get "compassion" when you try your best to help somebody out and they totally give you the finger, only to suffer because they weren't listening to you.

He is 13 years old...I am sposed to be looking after him and I DO try, but he doesn't want to be 'looked after' and then goes into a self-mutilation spiral in the name of 'enjoyment' and there is NOTHING I can do about it but lay the boot in when he is at his worst, because that is who I am...that is my nature.

I can definitely see a separation there...no connection whatsoever.

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you...this has already crossed my mind, that the Soul inside you, is exactly the same as the Soul inside me...but the expression of this Soul into conscious awareness differentiates each and every time it does...so to say that there is no difference or distinction, well, that just about nullifies everything on the physical plane, so that neither "I" nor "you' exists anyway...then, there is nothing to be 'different' and nothing to be "the same" either.

I don't know/understand how people can say that something wholly IS another thing, when it only contains a little piece or a spark of that thing...suffice to say, I am separate from others and others are separate from me in MY universe...see how this works?

I admit that I am unable to resolve your doubt properly but I know a person on another forum who might be able to help you.His understanding of this exact subject is unparalleled ,he teaches others the means to attain enlightenment and he is a genius in this very specific narrow field of Non-Duality etc.

If you don't want to join that forum then I'll ask him that question for you.

I'll PM you the details shortly,if that is okay

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by captainamerica

I admit that I am unable to resolve your doubt properly but I know a person on another forum who might be able to help you.His understanding of this exact subject is unparalleled ,he teaches others the means to attain enlightenment and he is a genius in this very specific narrow field of Non-Duality etc.

If you don't want to join that forum then I'll ask him that question for you.

I'll PM you the details shortly,if that is okay

I have realised ages ago that there is no Non-Dualist which can help me because I am a Bhakta...a full-on, Dualistic, God-loving Bhakta and all the Non Dualist is gonna say "well, if you want to attain Enlightenment, gotta give THAT up"...yeah, nice try!...I cannot "give that up" because I can't control it...it's like telling the sun not to shine.

...and if somebody can tell me how to be a Bhakti Yogi and an Advaita Vedantin simultaneously, I'll be ALL eyes...but even all over the internet this is never mentioned anywhere...and why? because it is impossible to be/do both at once...it is a choice...you are either a Dualist because you worship God, or you are a Non-Dualist because you don't...and never the twain shall meet...and this is why I think there is a separation...and this is my philosophical dilemma.

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I have realised ages ago that there is no Non-Dualist which can help me because I am a Bhakta...a full-on, Dualistic, God-loving Bhakta and all the Non Dualist is gonna say "well, if you want to attain Enlightenment, gotta give THAT up"...yeah, nice try!...I cannot "give that up" because I can't control it...it's like telling the sun not to shine.

...and if somebody can tell me how to be a Bhakti Yogi and an Advaita Vedantin simultaneously, I'll be ALL eyes...but even all over the internet this is never mentioned anywhere...and why? because it is impossible to be/do both at once...it is a choice...you are either a Dualist because you worship God, or you are a Non-Dualist because you don't...and never the twain shall meet...and this is why I think there is a separation...and this is my philosophical dilemma.

Rumi thought a lot about it ,some claim he knew how to get into the samadhi states,he said:

"When I looked for god I only found myself and when Iooked for myself I only found god"

What do you think about that ?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by captainamerica

Rumi thought a lot about it ,some claim he knew how to get into the samadhi states,he said:

"When I looked for god I only found myself and when Iooked for myself I only found god"

What do you think about that ?

When I looked for myself, I found nothing whatsoever and when I looked for God, I found God. It isn't sposed to be that way, is it? However in my case it is and that cannot be changed....I just wished that another living soul would be be to understand this, but I also realised long go that I expect WAY too much in that regard.

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

When I looked for myself, I found nothing whatsoever and when I looked for God, I found God. It isn't sposed to be that way, is it? However in my case it is and that cannot be changed....I just wished that another living soul would be be to understand this, but I also realised long go that I expect WAY too much in that regard.

I am also a dualist .I believe in non duality but only understand that at an intellectual level ,no arousal of any inner experience whatsoever. so we are on the same page ,I understand.

I also don't understand when somebody says that I am supposed to say "I am Shiva" and all I can think of is that I am not even a dust in the feet of Shiv ji.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by captainamerica

I also don't understand when somebody says that I am supposed to say "I am Shiva" and all I can think of is that I am not even a dust on the feet of Shiv ji.

YES!!! YES!!!

This is what bothers me SO much about it and I'm glad...so glad we are friends because I have finally found somebody who I can whine to about this and they will actually be able to understand me, without, themselves being totally caught up in the megalomanic god-trip so they cannot see anything beyond that and therefore cannot understand me.

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

YES!!! YES!!!

This is what bothers me SO much about it and I'm glad...so glad we are friends because I have finally found somebody who I can whine to about this and they will actually be able to understand me, without, themselves being totally caught up in the megalomanic god-trip so they cannot see anything beyond that and therefore cannot understand me.

We can talk about it more if you want

I am also glad that we are friends.

I'll reply to you when I reach home ,phone's battery is about to die in like a couple of minutes.

Bye for now.