Going Down The Rabbit Hole.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Sentientno1

i have a question......if we are all here to experience, and it's been said many times in many threads here that we are, why is the sociopath's experience less valid then the lover's?

who said a sociopath's expression isn't valid? there's certainly no denying the validity of the sociopathic expression since it is evidenced in the damage they do.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

who said a sociopath's expression isn't valid? there's certainly no denying the validity of the sociopathic expression since it is evidenced in the damage they do.

What I find with me is, I can never disconnect myself from things, so if someone complains about their abusive husband I just feell how much like him I am, and when it comes to sociopathy I can only feel my coldness. My life has contained the murderous degenerated and vile, so I have such a direct and sensory tangibilty... it's touchable.

In my particular case, it's the old saying 'a man's gotta do...' and it's remarkable how little choice there is, like tsunami just overwhelms all else and life simply preserves itself if it can, but all that comes with some nasty side effects like terrible temprament, and these aren't controlable and more than nausea is controllable after two bottles of Jack Daniels.

Point is people feel the way they do and not some other way. It's not a quandry of loving that accepting that or fixing it up... it simply is that way... what can ya do?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't understand God, but I have noticed He is used as the centrepiece of judgement and justification, so I tend to to leave these notions to others.

It's a perpetual classification exersize... what is sociopathic and the levels of where a problem is as opposed to the level it is examined from and what level I'm on as opposed to the healer's level, but I can feel what does move and what is a static theory, so am compelled to feel movement, and I get tired of wisdoms and sayings and niceties which float on the air but can't be breathed, tasted or felt.

It's a compultion to speak from the earth while playing in the dirt.

LOL..I'll be honest, I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying.

The sociopath is just the violent extreme of the damage that can be done when love isn't given and trust isn't formed. If love and trust are not provided consistently to us as children, it is fundamentally dehumanising and it can cause damage, sometime permanent & extreme damage. (I agree the degree to which biological tendencies play a part can be a fuzzy line.)

That's where we are all responsible for the way in which we treat one another, though we might argue that parents have a greater responsibility to their own child but the general idea is still there.

I think that saying we are all of God is just for me another way of saying it is incumbent on all of us to recognise the divine in one another, and to own that very lovely and grand and joyful reality. It is not a way of passing judgment or justifying anything in particular.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

who said a sociopath's expression isn't valid? there's certainly no denying the validity of the sociopathic expression since it is evidenced in the damage they do.

I think this is just another way of saying...if people are suffering and we want to prevent the worst...we need to take some responsiblity for what we can do...

...which is to provide love and support and yes boundaries and limits as well...
that too is necessary and loving, in proper context...and leave the rest to What Is.

Like so many things in life...consistency and continuity are key. Presence is key. Love is key.

If we give love to an adult sociopath...will it reach them? Can they control their violence? If the damage is permanent...perhaps not. Containment may be all we can do to safeguard ourselves and them.

But if we give love to the child...perhaps the sociopath never comes to be. Instead, through receiving and internalising love, compassion, and trust, they learn to form healthy attachments and join the rest of us.

Peace & blessings,
7L

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

who said a sociopath's expression isn't valid? there's certainly no denying the validity of the sociopathic expression since it is evidenced in the damage they do.

Thank you for the reply.

But here is the quandry, if all experience is for growth, and love is valid and being a sociopath is valid, and love wants to fix the sociopath isn't that interfering with the sociopath's growth? Then wouldn't the role of love be questioned as to it's effectivness in promoting growth?

This is confusing.

And don't get me wrong, if i saw someone about to harm another who was defensless i'd step in ( and probably get my a-- whupped)

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Gem

What is at the bottom of it? Isn't it that curiosity which makes all this spiritual? Some will have an answer like God or Love but then what's all this curiosity about if indeed such surety is real?


NOTHING at all as maybe that Rabbit Hole has no bottom. Maybe it just keeps ever expanding as we travel down it. That need to explore to KNOW and UNDERSTAND is so early on engrained into us. WHY? At times can we not just embrace that there are things we might not need to know and let it be.

To me I do not walk the path of God but I too embrace those fully that do. I see Universal Light and that too would include what I view as an emotion LOVe. What is real and what is not real to me matters really not. What I have come to embrace is this moment I now be in, as the next might well mean I be gone.
I used to ask "WHY" to everything and WANT that answer to come to me, now I ask WHY and if there be only oppinions and not answers come to me that be fine. From that I might well have learned something new.

There are two distinct ways... toward God and toward inner self... and yes I also heard 'I am God' but this curiosity is peering into the dark unknown and only presenting a belief.

To me that be one in the same path. It is said we are of God that God is in all of us. There is nothing wrong in saying " I am God" if it is done without the I am better than ye for saying that attached. I know some that say that and they have simply found that "balance" in them where the Light and Dark are in contol. That they can say I Like WHOM I am and truly mean that. To me to exist we need the path of Light and the path of Dark.

Why is a belief validated as 'personal truth'? I think we seek comfort in such things when actually it's a ruse, a 'personal lie'.

I dont know that we can have a pure personal truth, as we are so inter connected to the other. We are all of DNA that links us to be man. YET we so fight to be individuals. What I accept in personal life is that I GIVE back of me time and of me and I have really worked hard to LISTEN and not put forth too much of "ME" in reply. I put forth the many levels that we all are. At times messages from Spirits or Guides at times words from me. We are many a source of information yet most do not open to be that.

What really drives all us waskewy widdew wabbits to burrow is the sense of truth itself, so what value is there to the beliefs? They serve only to coddle and comfort, tempt and distract.

To burrow in gives us that security we might well have felt when still in our Mother's yet too we at the time of birth fight to be free. We do need to have some walls around us to protect us but we can have peep holes in that wall to explore and expand from.

Now it becomes apparent nothing comforting in this thread, but if you want to tear things down, have the safety net pulled out from under you, be pushed to the boundry, teeter precariously, be pulled like gravity, feel your grip slipping, let go and fall or hold on for dear life... ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ORlQfHWrQ

I have learned that for some it might simply be that Soul's path to struggle along and never find a step in life. To live life at times with NO safety net, and that is simply their path. The thought ye can lead a horse to water but ye can not make it drink, is one I have leanred to embrace. That I can NOT always be there for one's . That is ok to step away at times as I know that I was there and still am there if needed. Doors may close but are never locked.

To hold on for dear life is a personal choice we all make at times if one goes in circumstances other's do not embrace maybe we need to see that was truly thier path or they would not have gone.

We are all one and we all have the RIGHT to an oppinion and if it be presented in a stronger way than how other's might well put it forth so be it really. Does not mean that we are without a heart it might well mean simply we have SEEN more in life than another has. That one might have been down a darker road and knows full well its not all LOVe and Light along the path. Its all good even on the Spiritual level to have a harder edge is not a bad thing. It makes one honestly human.


Lynn

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Sentientno1

Thank you for the reply.

But here is the quandry, if all experience is for growth, and love is valid and being a sociopath is valid, and love wants to fix the sociopath isn't that interfering with the sociopath's growth? Then wouldn't the role of love be questioned as to it's effectivness in promoting growth?

This is confusing.

And don't get me wrong, if i saw someone about to harm another who was defensless i'd step in ( and probably get my a-- whupped)

hmmm i don't believe love has any effects on a sociopath but all i can do is intellectualize because i'm not a sociopath. the way such people think and feel is outside of my ken.

rabbit hole huh.... interesting....

Originally Posted by Gem

Why is a belief validated as 'personal truth'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ORlQfHWrQ

I do not think belief is personal truth. It think through experience we when we see personal truth. One can belief and call it truth because belief is powerful. Belief is very powerful in my opinion. I think personal truth comes from experience. Or thinking on a level beyond normal thought. Just All Knowing. You know it's true. It is experience.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

hmmm i don't believe love has any effects on a sociopath but all i can do is intellectualize because i'm not a sociopath. the way such people think and feel is outside of my ken.

In martial arts I learned to know the enemy, to be the enemy and think like him. Anticipating his next action. You know what he will do. Great defense and attack mechanism. I would think a sociopath would not experience love, but know that they could use love to manipulate people. In other words they could know how people work and manipulate people for their own personal gain. They don't care about anyone but themselves. Life would suck without feelings such as love. I think a sociopath is all driven by ego and is extremely selfish. Highly manipulative, and liars. But they would lie and believe their own lies so deeply that it would be hard to tell if they are lying when you look into their eyes.

I study human psychology, and human behavior. That's what I would think a sociopath would be like.