Only One - not two

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Longchen Rabjam

Although there is the appearance of multiplicity, to say that there is
no wavering from oneness
is to say that naturally occurring timeless awareness is
the single source.

So 'to say' reveals that it is all about empty words. Empty words however may entail effects although there is no cause inherent in the words themselves because they are empty.

[Ground]

So 'oneness' without further context may evoke a sentiment of rigidness or determination that is not appropriate. Actually 'neither one nor many' is more appropriate because of multiplicity arsising from one source. But since there is no beyond this 'neither one nor many' one may again call it 'oneness' knowing that it is an empty oneness not existing from its own side, i.e. without inherent truth, but arising only due to conceptual imputation.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Actually, there is NOTHING but that's difficult to articulate so sages did the best they could to speak of the ineffable. Hmmmmm.........
They knew folks would argue about the ineffable forever

Well for sure the moment one speaks of a so called truth be it a sage or a politician it will always be questioned by another that doesn't see eye to eye with what is said or what is pointed too .

There is only what you are . To say that is nothing would be correct in that context . To say that what you are is everything would be equally correct .

The everything aspect cannot be nothing while saying they are nothing .

The nothing aspect is beyond the mind .. it doesn't refer to the mind .

This is the common flaw when the nothingness overlaps into the manifest Self .


This is why we have many non dualists running around saying I am not here lol . It's incorrect .

It is correct to say beyond the manifest Self there is no-one there or here .. There are no actual means to refer to one being here or there lol . There is no here or there .


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Well for sure the moment one speaks of a so called truth be it a sage or a politician it will always be questioned by another that doesn't see eye to eye with what is said or what is pointed too .

There is only what you are . To say that is nothing would be correct in that context . To say that what you are is everything would be equally correct .

The everything aspect cannot be nothing while saying they are nothing .

The nothing aspect is beyond the mind .. it doesn't refer to the mind .

This is the common flaw when the nothingness overlaps into the manifest Self .


This is why we have many non dualists running around saying I am not here lol . It's incorrect .

It is correct to say beyond the manifest Self there is no-one there or here .. There are no actual means to refer to one being here or there lol . There is no here or there .


x daz x

Hey there Daz, nicely said. Agreed full stop.

You've clarified a core truth...everything is nothing and nothing is everything.
BUT simultaneously, from our manifest existence, this core truth has real, manifest implications and outcomes. There are real, manifest challenges to both our denser (physical) and less dense (spiritual) manifest existence. And foundational to any apprehension or illumination is clarity of vision, of scope and of being or purpose, however limited it may be. However limited or challenged, who, where, and when we are in this moment defines our momentary truth. And that's forever where we start (so to speak).

Following on what you said, now I feel alright about posting now you've made that clear and we can get more into the cogent aspects on oneness for those of us manifestly existing at the mo....and that hopefully there won't be too many rounds of dialogue on here/not here .

I feel a bit bolder now filled with less dread, hahaha. I've been speaking recently of how prominent fear & loathing is at the individual and societal levels of humanity at the mo, and I can see now I've just got over some of my own "fear & loathing" about this subforum, LOL.... ).

A very good thing as there's always more. So thanks very much for that

Peace & blessings,
7L

[urbanzennist]

The distinction between one and two is itself a duality. In the one, there are many, and from the many, there is one. To be able to simultaneously understand both and use them to aid in understanding, without taking either as absolute truth is nonduality.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Baile

I can only relate my own experience. And also share what some esoteric teachings say, which isn't my experience, but often makes some degree of sense to me.

I have had two metaphysical experiences of a voice speaking to me, and directing me, and instructing me. Some would call it a guide. Some would call it an angel. I call it my higher self, based on my understanding, and what I've read over the years. As I understand it, this higher self exists in the plane of spirit, which I imagine as a non-material parallel plane to our physical plane.

And supposedly there is also a shadow self that exists on the astral plane, another parallel plane to ours. You know that cartoon depiction of the angel on one shoulder, the devil on the other, whispering in our ear? Like that, only real.

The difference between the two though is the higher self is quite real. It is as real and substantial in the spirit plane, as the physical self is real in the material plane.

Whereas the shadow self is more a phantom than a reality. It is a creation of the Self, and therefore can be overcome by the Self. But it is real in that it wields power and influence over the individual, in the same way one can be addicted and unable to break free.

Baile...agreed and well said.

What you said speaks to is the core truth or challenge of manifest existence. That is, the challenge of living from your centre, manifesting unity, wholeness, and integrity of self -- where the truth of your higher self is simply manifest and present in who you are day-to-day. In intent, thought, word, and deed. In your physical reality day-to-day. It's behind the Ram Dass mantra "Be love now". Or, Be. Love. Now.

This challenge speaks to what I might call the universal aspect of manifest existence and of individuated consciousness. The shadow you mention is fully present in our physical reality, even often or partly suppressed or unconscious.

The shadow is no more and no less than the turning away from our full awakening and full emergence as realised spiritual beings, regardless of the form it variously takes across multiple lifetimes along our spiritual journeys as souls.

The higher self is also fully present in our physical reality, as it is the truth of who we are and sustains our entire manifest existence at every moment.

In the past...even the very recent path...many who had awakened or begun to awaken spiritually had nonetheless compartmentalised their lives. Believing in the spiritual truth of love and awe, of compassion and strength, of lovingkindness and justice -- whilst often living their day-to-day lives in a utilitarian and exploitative way that dehumanised, debased, or dishonoured others and therefore themselves as well. I.e., that did not seek the highest good for the other equally to heir own (and vice-versa). Another way of saying this is that many have refused to (or did not care to) rise to being who they are, who they truly are at centre.

Now -- as the energy of the Aquarian Age is becoming more evident and the core challenges of manifest existence (integrity of being, for one) are becoming more transparent -- we are seeing a backlash of fear and loathing as many turn away from the reality of who we are. Away from the reality, the core truth of our manifest existence. Which is...that we have a choice in each moment to manifest who we are, who we truly are at core. Or not to do so, and to co-create for ourselves and the world all that is less realised, less aligned and less true. Thus IMO less beautiful and less filled with the powerful energies of lovingkindness, grace, joy, right alignment, and resonance.

It's a downer in the mo for those of us living in in many societies where progress appears either uncertain or to have slowed and where so many desire to beat the rest of us into submission, in attempts to assuage their fear and loathing (LOL)...but in the long run, everything still awaits them as soon as they turn back to face forward, hahaha

And frankly, no matter how much they seek to control us or to beat on us, nor how hard they try do so -- their own fear and loathing remains until they locate the true source of their fears and hatreds...themselves. After they release all their resentments and angers toward others (and that's way on down the road for many so don't hold your breath for this lifetime, eh? would certainly be nice though...), they'll eventually have to own all their own stuff, and then begin the process of transmuting and healing and accepting the fullness of their own being.

That core truth of manifest existence...very sticky, that...and it's not going anywhere, hahaha


Peace & blessings,
7L

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Well for sure the moment one speaks of a so called truth be it a sage or a politician it will always be questioned by another that doesn't see eye to eye with what is said or what is pointed too .

Because it is a Paradox. [At the most basic level, a paradox is a statement that is self contradictory because it often contains two statements that are both true, but in general, cannot both be true at the same time.]

There is only what you are . To say that is nothing would be correct in that context . To say that what you are is everything would be equally correct .

There is only what is and what is not. There is no "you" to be or not be anything. Nothing and Everything just simultaneously are. It's a Paradox.

The nothing aspect is beyond the mind .. it doesn't refer to the mind .

It's a Paradox.

This is why we have many non dualists running around saying I am not here lol . It's incorrect .

It's both true and not true, Real and unreal. It's a Paradox.

It is correct to say beyond the manifest Self there is no-one there or here .. There are no actual means to refer to one being here or there lol . There is no here or there .
x daz x

It's a Paradox and also a mind game that the ego loves to play......so....on with the games....... .

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

...and that hopefully there won't be too many rounds of dialogue on here/not here .

You mean arguing and mind games.

[jimrich]

Just as baile said:

Originally Posted by Baile I can only relate my own experience.

I have never seen a "shadow" or "high self" but I've been the shadow or ego and I've been higher. I have not experienced a "higher self" nor a "shadow self" - just me, mysteriously appearing as those and many other states of "self".
In my experience, much of what non-duality points to is simply 'this' as it is here and now - fingers typing, eyes looking, mind whirling, body shaking in the cold, cars passing by, hearing happening, breathing happening, thoughts coming and going, feelings appearing and leaving, etc. There is only 'this'. Call it Oneness, Unity, wholeness, aliveness, the Absolute, Source, god, me, this ..... it's just what is happening right here and now. Imagining that there's wars going on, street shootings happening, bad weather out side, etc. is also just happening even if don't know for certain that anything beyond my current perception is or is not. I am happening, this is happening, it is happening and all WITHOUT any personal control or management of it.
There is just one Reality, Life, Me, This, You, It, beingness, aliveness, etc., happening here and now so I guess those can be labeled Non-duality or not two. It looks like a lot of separate stuff, but is it? Even science is now beginning to acknowledge that just one "substance" apparently exists.
Oddly, a part of me just doesn't care what it's called or even given a label at all. It just is and this just is. Many say there are no words that can describe "this" living presence or being or Nothing, etc.

Re: Ram Dass mantra: "Be love now"

That's good enough for me. Love is all there is. Love is you, me, us. My late wife had a phrase: "I love us." ...... I love you AND ME.
the other thing about non-duality is that it tells me that I am already free. I am whole and complete JUST AS I AM - here and now and that I do not need exotic practices, meditations, praying, sitting before teachers and sages, visiting India, rushing over to the local ashram or guru, collecting more and more books and videos and on and on to just be what I already am right here and now. I don't need to anxiously WAIT for the "shift", a sudden "awakening", an "ah-ha" moment, the light to come on, exotic bliss, collapsing onto the floor, etc. THIS IS IT! I AM THERE! I just am! What a shock! Why have I been so convince that this is NOT IT? LOL, well all of that started just after I was born and has now ended with the help of Tony Parsons, Jim Newman and Natalie Gray. I am now willing to relax and JUST BE!
Sailor Bob: "What's wrong with right now?"
As Originally Posted by Baile "I can only relate my own experience."

[Ground]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Even science is now beginning to acknowledge that just one "substance" apparently exists.

Sorry but that seems to be wishful thinking based on irrational monism.
Obviously philosophies in the sphere of Advaita just lack the analytical tools to access reality (or - if they don't lack - you never bothered to get familiar with them and their use). That may be the failure of Advaita philosophies or the failure of yours and that is where some buddhist philosophies succeed.