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  #41  
Old 16-02-2017, 02:01 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Something of an analogy I mentioned many moons ago about Free-will is likened to a game of chess . Each lifetime had shows us another hand or allows us to work with a set specific set of tools .

If you find yourself with only half a chess set then you are limited .

If you have a full set then you have many options .

What tools you have or what chess pieces you have will be dependant / because of many things .

I listened to a channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8hPcTXLY2k

I find her a good watch especially the yogananda video .

Anyway the Nostradamus video mentioned a similar thing to my chess analogy .

As Nostradamus put it, the 3rd dimension is governed by mathematics (for use of a better word)

It's only of our environment where, Divine Law, Free-will, Karma-will plays it's part in percentages .


x daz x
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  #42  
Old 16-02-2017, 02:18 PM
Dustin Dustin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
It is inadequate to speak in terms of "before" the physical universe existed yet I do. In the higher spiritual dimensions a great group of entities which were far above mere human beings exist. If we were to try to describe what they do we would probably say they "express livingness". We simplify by referring to the mind of God. It is this which led to the application of great minds specifically upon lower spiritual "matter". At a certain "moment" this resulted in a flash and the beginning of the lowest of all yet seen. Our physical universe was born. It resulted from the application of mind upon spiritual matter which then congealed, slowed and became more dense than anything yet seen.

In the above we find, as you say, matter out of mind. More specifically dense physical matter out of higher more refined, less dense, spiritual matter born of the application of mind which, in turn, resulted from a focused mighty will. Mind over matter. Will power.

You refer to consciousness as having two forms, fields and pathways. I say that, as a principle, consciousness is, in essence, no more than the signature of the creative will which lays behind all. I would suggest that downstream from this we would find the paths and fields that you suggest. Deep within the primordial basalts of the Earth consciousness exists. Far out in the cold emptiness of interstellar space there is also the conscious signature of the beginnings. In both those environments more subtle energies are all invasive. They coincide and invigorate what we commonly see. They do not carry consciousness. They are conscious. Consciousness is best explained by thinking it as though it were a lingering result, a gift perhaps, of the great mind which created. If there are fields and pathways hereabouts they are also the same in the very highest realms. Consciousness is not a field, nor is it a cause. It is better described as being the personal signature of God. All of creation is imbued with it. As such it certainly would qualify as your "base stuff". Great post.

There are no disagreements in our views.
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  #43  
Old 20-02-2017, 05:33 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
James: I have the same thoughts and try to remember that we can react with either the lower mind or the higher. But sometimes we are overwhelmed before we have time to decide. This is when we wax emotional. In this sense it certainly is fear that motivates and shapes. In the social landscape found on Earth today both high and low (mind) are clearly evident. Our choices often seem few and inadequate. In these times it is, as you say, hard to exercise control. The lower mind seems to have much more power than the higher. And what of the future? Then I remember the subtle world which lays hidden behind our more familiar one. Here is a more viable field of operation if we could only see it clearly. Of course after we stop being emotional we can once again see the path ahead clearly. Much easier it is to be theoretical rather than practical.

In concurrence,

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  #44  
Old 20-02-2017, 05:34 AM
shiningstars shiningstars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
How can we not? Every word and action of this moment, affects our future. I'd go so far as to say every thought as well. And in many ways, it is thought (belief) that creates our physical reality and world. A person who thinks people are rotten and the world is mistreating them, will continue to be miserable every day into their future.

I have free will. Free to create a material life and spiritual path based on what I choose to believe about myself, people, and the world and universe.

An empowering attitude, thanks for sharing it, it is a lesson I am only starting to learn.

shiningstars
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  #45  
Old 25-02-2017, 03:30 PM
Dustin Dustin is offline
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correction

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
It is not easy to understand this concept. We all know this. A good place to begin is to restate that the idea of free will is firmly connected to the flow of what we call "time". Time is nothing more than an effect of matter. More specifically it is keyed to the relative density of matter. Physical material produces very fast time. Time in astral or mental matter is slower. Time likewise slows in higher planes until it stops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin
Hey, cool thought, something to add, I think you may have it backwards. According to Steven Halkings if you orbited as close as able to the massive black hole at the center of our galaxy you would be in a larger warp in space than here on earth but also you would age and experience the passing of time at a relative different rate than the person on earth, that is that you would live much longer than the person on earth even though the experience of time would be the same by both people. Also in the physics of light documentary it's stated that a neon burning up in the atmosphere only exists from our prospective for a fraction of a second but from its perspective via relativity it experiences incredibly more time because it is traveling much closer to the speed of light than us.

You stated a significance in that in high planes time would stop. My view being that time would speed up,

Hey when I responded I made a mistake in thinking that you had it backwards; it's as us said just a difficult concept to understand. Each of the statements I quoted from you are correct except that time eventually stops in a higher plane, I would argue against the concept based on my own premises which I'll present; also each of the statements I quoted that I wrote are also correct except my view being that time would speed up.

So I'm working on getting into a book covering string theory right now, so far still working though a section on quantum mechanics but a quote from it that made me realize my mistake is “Particles whirling around modern accelerators experience tremendous time dilatation. Time for them runs about 1000 times slower than for a proton at rest.” Gubser the LITTLE BOOK of STRING THEORY.

So the conclusion is that the experience of time relates to the thing in question but from our view higher planes have more time in the same moment than we do and from the view of higher planes we have less time in the same moment that they do. Some people say that time is slower or faster in this process but for me I would say that that is a confused way of looking at it, I would argue that a more accurate statement is to say that there is more or less time in the same measurement of space just as there is more or less space in the same amount of space which is the difference in our dimension and other dimensions. I would agree that eventually if you go higher and higher in dimension that eventually time well stop or be eternal, in reference to what is happening. I connect time with consciousness and say that consciousness doesn't happen in no time so Brahma (God) awake exists in eternal time and Brahma (God) asleep exist in stopped time/no time which the difference is one is a plane of a single frequency at the speed of light and the other is electromagnetism at rest or in collapsed wave form. AUM being “Gods consciousness vibrating throughout creation” is the diff between awake and asleep and is the thing that forms the wave.
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[color="Green"][size="1"]Offspring The Meaning of Life:
By the way - I know your path has been tried and so - It may seem like the way to go - Me, I'd rather be found - Trying something new - I gotta go find my own way - I gotta go make my own mistakes - Sorry for feeling, feeling the way I do
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  #46  
Old 25-02-2017, 04:40 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markings
Suzuki Roshi ("Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind") writes this in a quote: "Even if the sun were to rise from the West a Bodhisattva only has one way".

It is generally agreed that a Bodhisattva is an enlightened person and the quote above means that such a person has no choice, i.e. no free will.

Likewise, in "The Supreme Doctrine" Hubert Benoit delivers a logically derived argument that an enlightened person inevitably has to come down on the side of the good. Such a person cannot possibly serve evil.
Again this means that there is no choice and without any choice there cannot be free will.

In short, the ignorant have free will, the enlightened ones have not.

An enlightened being soars above the little separatist self-created "mental prison" called the ego and sees from the perspective of the Big Picture which acts in the best interests of the Totality with no expectation of a return. It is well said that, paradoxically, the pathless path of complete freedom for such enlightened beings is indeed Choiceless.

I am saying the same thing as you but in different words.

When one realizes the limitations of the little personal perspective, one ultimately surrenders to that which lies beyond it all and, at that point, any questions related to "free will" become irrelevant and actually do not even arise any more.

P.S. I read the entire thread before posting and was surprised that no one followed up on your point. Suzuki is an excellent reference.
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  #47  
Old 25-02-2017, 07:17 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Cat What "we"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian77
Do we have Free Will,if so,What is it? Anyone have any ideas on this subject? This question could unlock our future.
I'd start by finding out exactly who is this 'we' in the question. Who are you? Who has the question? Then I'd move on to examine: Free Will to understand how 'we' do or do not have such a thing.
The sages say that there is only Universal Consciousness or What is, so, of course you, Universal Consciousness, have free will while temporarily appearing to be a person or a 'we'.
But as a person or a 'we', you temporarily FORGET that you are "All that there is" ...and then you use personal fee will as much as you can - as an apparent individual. The joke is that you, the Absolute, are secretly deciding and doing EVERYTHING that is happening so, carry on.............
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  #48  
Old 25-02-2017, 07:45 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Smile Who needs it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markings:
....the ignorant have free will, the enlightened ones have not.
I'd say, "The ignorant have free will, the enlightened ones have NO NEED FOR IT.".
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  #49  
Old 25-02-2017, 08:02 PM
bartholomew bartholomew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin
Hey when I responded I made a mistake in thinking that you had it backwards; it's as us said just a difficult concept to understand. Each of the statements I quoted from you are correct except that time eventually stops in a higher plane, I would argue against the concept based on my own premises which I'll present; also each of the statements I quoted that I wrote are also correct except my view being that time would speed up.

So I'm working on getting into a book covering string theory right now, so far still working though a section on quantum mechanics but a quote from it that made me realize my mistake is “Particles whirling around modern accelerators experience tremendous time dilatation. Time for them runs about 1000 times slower than for a proton at rest.” Gubser the LITTLE BOOK of STRING THEORY.

So the conclusion is that the experience of time relates to the thing in question but from our view higher planes have more time in the same moment than we do and from the view of higher planes we have less time in the same moment that they do. Some people say that time is slower or faster in this process but for me I would say that that is a confused way of looking at it, I would argue that a more accurate statement is to say that there is more or less time in the same measurement of space just as there is more or less space in the same amount of space which is the difference in our dimension and other dimensions. I would agree that eventually if you go higher and higher in dimension that eventually time well stop or be eternal, in reference to what is happening. I connect time with consciousness and say that consciousness doesn't happen in no time so Brahma (God) awake exists in eternal time and Brahma (God) asleep exist in stopped time/no time which the difference is one is a plane of a single frequency at the speed of light and the other is electromagnetism at rest or in collapsed wave form. AUM being “Gods consciousness vibrating throughout creation” is the diff between awake and asleep and is the thing that forms the wave.

James: "Eternity" is NOT an endless succession of time. Rather it is an existence in which there is no time at all. The idea describes the very highest of all the spiritual planes. This is supposedly where God is. It is referred to obliquely in scripture through a curious statement that Jesus is said to have made: "Before Adam was, I am." No human being, not even the highest Master of masters has direct knowledge of this "place". We all take it on faith alone. We have evidence of it though. Science show us that time is a result of matter and that the variables are velocity and density. This is crudely put but I think you will agree. This statement is the basis for my contention that says time slows as we look higher until it stops altogether.

We always have arguments when we approach an absolute. Any absolute. But sometimes we have to go as close as we dare. In this case if there is still time, no matter how slow, there must be something beyond. The trouble is that we do not have a mathematics which adequate to the challenge.

Consider how we use "zero" as a convenience but is it really impossible to attain. "Nothing" is illogical and impossible in a three dimensional universe. Space is not a perfect vacuum and beyond the matter that it contains is the more rarified matter of the ethereal and beyond that is the yet more rarified matter of the astral and so on. The mental plane is made of matter too but it is not physical. It is mental matter. This continues on and on. The very highest place "where God is" is thus posed as being a matter of belief. We know of it but attempts to describe it fall short. In this case the use of an absolute is practical as it fits what we have heard. We thus say "God is timeless".

An interesting note here is the old argument which is stated something like; "If we have free choice then how does God know in advance how we will choose?" The answer is that we do choose but we are embedded in time. God is in the timeless place. (here "place" is woefully inadequate) From God's viewpoint everything, all events int he entire history of creation, simply are. Everything is in the present. We think this is illogical but we do not have perfect vision.

The human mind can say that it believes this to be true but the human mind is incapable of truly grasping the idea.

In the realm of science men and women try but there are always limitations. Einstein sought a unified field (which, I believe was the spiritual universe). Spiritualists also find limits. Each of these two disciplines is limited because we are not designed to be capable of pushing out minds beyond a certain point.

The above is from James, not Bartholomew.

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  #50  
Old 25-02-2017, 09:34 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich
I'd say, "The ignorant have free will, the enlightened ones have NO NEED FOR IT.".

You've expressed that particularly well.

When I practiced under Pir Vilayat Khan, he once said: "The ego is very important.....until one no longer needs it."



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