What's your explanation for bad things happening to good people?

[revolver]

I personally feel that so called karma is only there when we are in duality, karma doesn't exist in Oneness, in Oneness there is nothing to attract karma.

[pilgrim11]

Originally Posted by Busby

So you think that karma, as we were discussing it, can be altered by 'divine intervention' ? Why does throwing the baby out with the bathwater come to mind?

“Divine Intervention” as you framed it implies a Divine Energy (Wisdom... as I like the term) acting from outside. Not Possible!

"Divine Wisdom" takes its source from a Supreme Spiritual Energy that does not exist OUTSIDE of us or outside of all that exist. That Supreme Spiritual Energy is part and parcel of every atom of our physical selves and is present in EVERYTHING that exist ...even in a simple grain of sand. That Supreme Spiritual Energy (God ...for some) is the fabric of ALL that exist.

In science, energy (electrical current, for example), by itself, is always in a passive state (neutral) and contains both positive and negative charges. But an outside influence, like wise Man, can use that electrical power for GOOD (lighting, in medicine etc.) or, for BAD (electric chair, atomic bomb etc.)
Does that make electricity Good or Bad?

And so, it is with Pure Spiritual Energy – it contains and, IS EVERYTHING, containing all that is positive and negative BUT is always in a passive state. What activates Spiritual Energy are states of levels of Consciousness in anything from a stone to the highest angels.
So, is Spiritual Energy GOOD or BAD? It”s both. Can be summoned for healing or black magic – in equal measure; depending on the objectives of the seeker.

In answer to your question:
So you think that karma, as we were discussing it, can be altered by 'divine intervention' ?

When a Kharmic action is unfolding and the owner of that Kharmic action is in a state of spiritual readiness, he/she can pool from that Pure (neutral) Spritual Energy (ever-present within) and ALTER the course or nature of her/his Kharmic objective (for good or bad).

Divine intervention is never without the explicit consent of a conscious and evolved entity (i.e. violation of free-will of us, human kind).

What stirs Divine Wisdom in someone is the level or degree of CONSCIOUSNESS and willingness to tune-in to that inherent Divine Wisdom and act according to its Wisdom. Simple enough to understand but sooooo difficult to relate to in real life!

Best wishes....

[Busby]

Originally Posted by pilgrim11

“When a Kharmic action is unfolding and the owner of that Kharmic action is in a state of spiritual readiness, he/she can pool from that Pure (neutral) Spritual Energy (ever-present within) and ALTER the course or nature of her/his Kharmic objective (for good or bad).

Divine intervention is never without the explicit consent of a conscious and evolved entity (i.e. violation of free-will of us, human kind).

What stirs Divine Wisdom in someone is the level or degree of CONSCIOUSNESS and willingness to tune-in to that inherent Divine Wisdom and act according to its Wisdom. Simple enough to understand but sooooo difficult to relate to in real life!

Best wishes....

'Karmic action' is always unfolding, both in a spiritual (mental) sense and a physical sense. You are, at the moment you read this, at your fulfilled point of universal experience. There cannot be anything else. Both said senses belong to the same thing. It's called life and is so naturally true for the grain of sand you mention. The whole point about karma (if it really exists) is that it is at no point truly fulfilled as there is always going to be a reaction. So it follows that one's/our karma(s) can only be altered for 'good' or for 'bad' by action(s). This thus 'altered' state will never be stable as actions and reactions will continue.

Karma, if we accept it as existing, is eternal and will never end. In Hinduism all gods (energies) all die, except for the intangible, and then are reborn in a condition depending upon their karma.

We can't suddenly invoke miracles (divine will) into a law, this would deprive karma of all validity.

Plans of mice and men, as Robbie Burns once said. (go oft astray).

[David0301]

all "bad" things that happen in our lives just happened in order to bring us closer to a world without duality. To help us finally lift the veil of duality. So actually ther is no such thing as "bad". Some people achieve that state earlier and some achieve it late - even up to 1 minute before they die. But thats the ultimate goal. It also took me long time to understand this. Until i have read the book of andreas moritz "lifting the veil of duality" . Everything makes sense now.

[pilgrim11]

Originally Posted by Busby

'Karmic action' is always unfolding, both in a spiritual (mental) sense and a physical sense..... Both said senses belong to the same thing. It's called life and is so naturally true for the grain of sand you mention. The whole point about karma (if it really exists) is that it is at no point truly fulfilled as there is always going to be a reaction. So it follows that one's/our karma(s) can only be altered for 'good' or for 'bad' by action(s). This thus 'altered' state will never be stable as actions and reactions will continue.

Well said! You got it right...

Kharma is just a borrowed descriptive word from Eastern philosophy. Another word with equal meaning to Kharma is TRANSACTION/S (Trans-action/s). And, you are absolutely right when you say there is no end to Trans-actions ...Kharma - its eternal, infinite just as Spiritual Energy (or, God ...whatever).

To understand Kharma, its best to frame it in real life context in order to better consider its meaning and implications. That's why I always cite a real life scenario (context) for a better appreciation of the subject. So, in conclusion; we can refer to a specific Transaction (emerging from other transactions and, generating its own multiple transactions). i.e. A butterfly flaps its wings in New-York and causes a flood in China ...kind of ripple effect over XXX period of time...

Giving some kind of positive direction to a personal kharmic experience (taking control consciously) is never by DIRECT DIVINE INTERVENTION - Definitely, not possible!!!!
Context: Some people afflicted with terminal cancer suddenly cures themselves... How about athletes breaking world records... How about ordinary Joe Blogs winning the Big Lottery etc. etc.
In all the above cases, these people CONSCIOUSLY and by sheer WILL-POWER and with an incredible FAITH became MASTERS of their specific Kharma of the moment. At some stage, in a fraction of time, they CONNECTED and VIBRATED at the same cycle of their inherent Spiritual Energy and ACHIEVED their goals ....only to begin another day and work on another Kharmic aspect of their life.

That's what meditation is supposed to do - CONNECT with the Universal Spiritual Energy within which is NEUTRAL (containing all positives and all negatives). Peace, quietness, stillness ...and slowly but surely you get nearer to that critical vibration cycle of the Eternal. Only then Divine Wisdom will deliver ...as asked by the seeker!

How many ordinary people can do that, tune-in and tap on the bountiful Spiritual Energy within?

Best wishes

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by traceyacey12

To restate: why do you think bad things happen to good people? How do you rationalize this?

As always, interested in reading your viewpoints :)

I look at the bigger picture and see the way our societies work is responsible for most of our suffering. The lack of understanding we have about ourselves causes our societies to have problems and the resut is individuals suffer.

Science is starting to understand how the human mind works now and I believe will result in big changes in society eventually. For example, people now believe in the concept of 'evil' behavior and the only solution is to incarcarate or kill. But now we're understanding why people do harmful behaviors, and it has nothing todo with people being evil or bad.

I would also say much of our health problems are the result of society and it's beliefs. As well as the mental and emotional suffering. In the bible it says 'my people suffer because they lack knowledge'. I think this is exactly true.

For example, people who suffer from ptsd were just medicated before because they didn't know what to do for them. Now there are very effective therapies for ptsd that allow people to go with their lives. Understanding and scientific testing are key, because that allows people to have access to their true selves, which is their spirituality.