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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #21  
Old 06-08-2017, 02:43 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglow
Hmmm, an interesting share.

Is it eventually we have no choice, it just happened?
Is this a form of surrender? Giving up our thought ways things should be and falling into the flow of things(so to speak)?

What are we as these physical beings? Seems still being revealed on some level and deep down known on another. Perhaps, the dilemma or may appear as such are only ones self made chains.

Why later to be free? Don't you think one can free oneself now if willing and able? Atleast in ones thinking and perspective.

Just expressing the thoughts this brings to me.

well all this is my POV and you may not like it so take it with a grain of salt...

according to the literature we were told not to do something that would 'kill' us, but did it anyway. Ironically we don't have much choice about the detox though it is being forced on us.

But you could also say all this just happened, because, according to other literature the impetuous for the existance of the being that is playing this hand against us is something that one day, just happened out of the blue. An idle what if coming to fruition?

why later to be free? Well it is gradual, we are gradually getting stuff back... but the problem is so deeply ingrained that in a lot of ways it still grips us. From conversations with people it is obvious that people actually admire the thing that is at the root of the problem and actually want more of it, so you have the ingrained desire of people to take what they desire to an extreme as an opposing force to the forces that would have the problem fixed.

If you spend the effort to analyze what is going on, you find you can't just fix it and be done with it, in the way people mean to go about fixing things. It just isn't possible. Ever notice how when someone fixes something what actually happens next is a bunch of new problems pop up? But the one who fixed the original problem is done and gone and never sees that he has just left a mess for everyone else. And it goes on and on like that, with people periodically championing a cause, fixing it, then naively resting on the beach while the next generation does exactly the same thing with the mess they made.

The fact that one thing gives birth to another is a natural part of life, but unfortunately that plays against us permanently 'solving' what needs to be resolved.

The 'plan' as far as I know is to completely fix this problem without room for the problem to recur.

as far as what we really are, it seems like we aren't what we would rather be. But I no longer like to speculate as to what might be... as there is a lot of idle speculation going on and backed by what exactly? People assert things on their own authority and a lot of it seems like **. I haven't been told anything concrete about what we are although there are certain ideas I do resonate with.

However, I don't think physics such a big deal, if our only problem were physics it could easily be fixed by those who have the answers to our past. The reason they don't do it now is that it has been shown that that would aggravate the problem we have rather than making it better.

don't get me wrong here... the problem I'm speaking of is insiduous and invades simply everything we do. Even if we were able to clearly see it well enough to mount an actual attempt to get rid of it, we would attempt to use it itself as a tool and thus totally fool ourselves. Then at some point we would claim we succeeded simply because things seem different than they were... and everyone here would agree.

But an outside observer would still know we were just as sick as before. The only real difference being that one moment we arbitrarily decided to agree with that sentiment, and the next we arbitrarily didn't.

Even something as arguably desirable as 'surrendering' and 'going with the flow' is rife with problems, from what I've been told. But who is it who is actually going to stop, and believe, that something they love is at best problematic and at worst will eventually suck the life out of them?
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:00 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
well all this is my POV and you may not like it so take it with a grain of salt...

according to the literature we were told not to do something that would 'kill' us, but did it anyway. Ironically we don't have much choice about the detox though it is being forced on us.

But you could also say all this just happened, because, according to other literature the impetuous for the existance of the being that is playing this hand against us is something that one day, just happened out of the blue. An idle what if coming to fruition?

why later to be free? Well it is gradual, we are gradually getting stuff back... but the problem is so deeply ingrained that in a lot of ways it still grips us. From conversations with people it is obvious that people actually admire the thing that is at the root of the problem and actually want more of it, so you have the ingrained desire of people to take what they desire to an extreme as an opposing force to the forces that would have the problem fixed.

If you spend the effort to analyze what is going on, you find you can't just fix it and be done with it, in the way people mean to go about fixing things. It just isn't possible. Ever notice how when someone fixes something what actually happens next is a bunch of new problems pop up? But the one who fixed the original problem is done and gone and never sees that he has just left a mess for everyone else. And it goes on and on like that, with people periodically championing a cause, fixing it, then naively resting on the beach while the next generation does exactly the same thing with the mess they made.

The fact that one thing gives birth to another is a natural part of life, but unfortunately that plays against us permanently 'solving' what needs to be resolved.

The 'plan' as far as I know is to completely fix this problem without room for the problem to recur.

as far as what we really are, it seems like we aren't what we would rather be. But I no longer like to speculate as to what might be... as there is a lot of idle speculation going on and backed by what exactly? People assert things on their own authority and a lot of it seems like **. I haven't been told anything concrete about what we are although there are certain ideas I do resonate with.

However, I don't think physics such a big deal, if our only problem were physics it could easily be fixed by those who have the answers to our past. The reason they don't do it now is that it has been shown that that would aggravate the problem we have rather than making it better.

don't get me wrong here... the problem I'm speaking of is insiduous and invades simply everything we do. Even if we were able to clearly see it well enough to mount an actual attempt to get rid of it, we would attempt to use it itself as a tool and thus totally fool ourselves. Then at some point we would claim we succeeded simply because things seem different than they were... and everyone here would agree.

But an outside observer would still know we were just as sick as before. The only real difference being that one moment we arbitrarily decided to agree with that sentiment, and the next we arbitrarily didn't.

Even something as arguably desirable as 'surrendering' and 'going with the flow' is rife with problems, from what I've been told. But who is it who is actually going to stop, and believe, that something they love is at best problematic and at worst will eventually suck the life out of them?


I respect your point of view, but not following it completely.

The question that comes to mind is; What's the problem?
A loaded question perhaps and the answer may vary according to what one believes, observes, interprets, and may even find profitable.

No argument from me that humans have things to work out.
Is it of our own making or is the fault of some other entity? Again a question that seems has various answers according to how one views things, IMO.

IMO, somewhere along the line humans (in general) in some groups have lost touch with nature and through development have further and further drifted away from each other and nature. Not all, but enough to cause disruption.

In some respects have created systems based on material profits, as opposed to what may profit us as a whole.

There are others attempting to draw attention to reconnecting with nature.
Some of these groups can also fall into their own agendas and splinter.

So, what is the core issue here, perhaps not being addressed?
A complex question and the answer may not be so cut and dry.

I come across talks and writings that imply and may say outright that somehow we ( in general) are going to be saved by some outside force or entities.
Sorry but, I don't buy this.

Through our ( humans) time here it seems to me we ( as a global society) have created our own problems. Unfortunately our problems have and continue to have their affects upon each other, the Earth, and other living creatures here.

So, what's the solutions? A tough one to answer. For it takes a unified effort to create. If we are too busy being entranced in the latest device, fighting with each other, and having profit rule over people's well being, as well as ignoring the Earth, then what are the chances we will unite?

Not attempting to be gloom and doom here. Expressing some things I am viewing as perpetuating our divisions as I interpret them.

The point I see is we can be our solution to changing the way things seem to be.
We have that choice, IMO. Don't see us as puppets. Some of it is how willing is one to create the change and for what?

There is the other side as well. Nature will have its way. Not ruling out the possibility that humans may reach a climax in population and development, then may be faced with being thinned out in population due to natural occurances.
Just a thought.

Has happened to other life forms here, so what makes us any different?

Is this "spiritual"? Depends on how life is viewed. Don't know what all Spirit desires to experience. May be simply cause and effect, if one believes in such.
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  #23  
Old 07-08-2017, 04:46 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,806
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Quote:
FallingLeaves: don't get me wrong here... the problem I'm speaking of is insiduous and invades simply everything we do.
there are eddies within eddies within eddies:



it seems to me that a resolution to the (perceived) problems can come
through an exploration of "first cause"... the motivations of prime creator.
i believe that the instigating impetus for all of everything was (and is)
purely loving and affirmative of life in all forms.
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:29 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
as it was relayed to me, we chose a path that leads only to 'death'. death being in this terms as I understand it a situation where no choice is possible and change becomes fixed.



I've thought about this before and does this mean we are suppose to in the end be of the same thought as the creator for this "is" not the way, but it's way. In this world in relation to teaching of creator's will (way) I disagree with many things. Do I disagree with teaching or creator? Of course I am told I am wrong in either. I would rebel, disagree, and speak up if it matched teaching so I won't accept either. The death you are speaking is symbolic is what you mean, right. It's my way or the highway. Me I enjoy travel. If it is only teaching, then it is meaningless...lol, if it is not then i doubt I can agree and not meaningless. That death of right should never be allowed imo.
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