Being in "The Now"

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by Iamit

It is not he or she who thinks but Oneness! You say of course that all is already Oneness and then add a Yet or a But. Oneness is playing with itself:) Stop adding that Yet or But and your feeling of separation about those concerns will be no more. There is of course already no separation going on at all because it is already Oneness arising as those concerns. Include those concerns as Oneness arising and there is no longer any distance to be covered between them and the destination:)

Imagine these words are addressed to no one in particular. So nothing to take personal.

Words are only apparant formalities. .None of it gives you oneness... simply more interpretation. No need to bark at the wall. Intelectualizing IT doesn't authenticate IT. Oneness is playing with itself, yet no one their to claim it. If that which is stated or percieved comes from a solid identification as still primary, its simply more illusion.

The apparant problem with waking up is that its usually confused with liberation. The apparant problem with approaching liberation is that their is no one there to be liberated. The first shift in awareness can be causal (still dual).. the final shift is always acausal (beyond the illusion of duality and non-duality) ..and never is made to happen.

Where you are in the conceptual path is respected. Nothing here you can agree with nor add or subtract... unless to sustain separation (duality).

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Of course its already oneness. All from the same source. Yet, if it comes from a conceptual conclusion, something one in separation can agree, measure or believe in, then one only continues to thinks he or she knows. Most come to this as further belief...thinking and further maintaining just another illusion, another defined idea to hold on to. ALL the books you have read, all the practices, meditations you have done and teachings you have completed are utterly meaningless, once its realized. None of it has anything to do with what is as a primary function percieved by a separate position still their. It is all for the ego conviniently disguised as one of countless spiritual labels and modalities. Its as elementary as someone speaking volumes about what it is to skydive yet never had jumped off an airplane.

The thing is, 'Oneness' is a dual concept that derives from the intellectual aspects of mind .

Beyond duality / mind there is no concept / thought of oneness .

I agree that there is no separation but there is individuality .

Every life signature is different and yet fundamentally the same .

Individuality is the difference experienced / expressed .

Such individuals can say that the sense of their individuality is real or illusory, but the key point is that the sense of individuality of the mind allows one to have a sense of themselves that differs ..


x daz x

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Imagine these words are addressed to no one in particular. So nothing to take personal.

Words are only apparant formalities. .None of it gives you oneness... simply more interpretation. No need to bark at the wall. Intelectualizing IT doesn't authenticate IT. Oneness is playing with itself, yet no one their to claim it. If that which is stated or percieved comes from a solid identification as still primary, its simply more illusion.

The apparant problem with waking up is that its usually confused with liberation. The apparant problem with approaching liberation is that their is no one there to be liberated. The first shift in awareness can be causal (still dual).. the final shift is always acausal (beyond the illusion of duality and non-duality) ..and never is made to happen.

Where you are in the conceptual path is respected. Nothing here you can agree with nor add or subtract... unless to sustain separation (duality).

There is no such reality as duality, only Oneness manifesting as the appearance of duality. So what you think you have to overcome already does not exist:) You dont even have to realize that for it is already Oneness not realizing:) There really is nothing to be done or realized:)

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by God-Like

The thing is, 'Oneness' is a dual concept that derives from the intellectual aspects of mind .

Beyond duality / mind there is no concept / thought of oneness .

I agree that there is no separation but there is individuality .

Every life signature is different and yet fundamentally the same .

Individuality is the difference experienced / expressed .

Such individuals can say that the sense of their individuality is real or illusory, but the key point is that the sense of individuality of the mind allows one to have a sense of themselves that differs ..


x daz x

The fundamental key in every word spoken is its origination. In other words, is there still a who there as a position in identity speaking of the one, source, god, duality, nonduality, enlightenment, path, no path,.. etc? If so then meaning or significance is there conceptually for that which is still identified in a conceptual existence. If the one speaking still has his ego in place, then story and character still continue. The ego or slightest sense of individuality is never awakened, enlightened or liberated. It is pricisely that individuality which completely disolves once liberation is there. This conditioned persona and its experience is nothing more than as extended dream as expression

Many confuse a sense of individuality (ego identification) as necessary to carry on in this world. That simply more mind identification conviniently assuming such nonesense in order to sustain its own sense of self importance. What you are is an expression at best, yet that expression has taken on some sort of primary significance. And since one can not be without a psychological and tangible sense of self for more than a milli-second, most retreat back to what is a common illussionary/conditioned existence. However now, we can build a more vast body of spiritual understanding and from this resigned and compromised new stage, we imagine that a more sturdy and evolved absorption can take place next time around. All of this is a continuous cycle until that expession calapses at the original inception which gave birth to a conceptual and experiential world.

Again, it all boils down to a perciever or experiencer still their and thus under the dillusion that its a centralized and primary conduit of its own conceptual world. There is no you post liberation. And in this moment, the you prior to liberation is nothing more than a myth. Thats what fk's with the insatiable need for the ego to remain in the picture.

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by Iamit

There is no such reality as duality, only Oneness manifesting as the appearance of duality. So what you think you have to overcome already does not exist:) You dont even have to realize that for it is already Oneness not realizing:) There really is nothing to be done or realized:)

Of course there is no such reality as duality except as illussion. Once individual identity/ perception collapses, its the one once again as it has always been. There is nothing you have to overcome because its not there to begin with. It is obvious. So there is no one in the now either.. neither a now to percieve. Yet all of that is usually more story for most who claim it.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

The fundamental key in every word spoken is its origination. In other words, is there still a who there as a position in identity speaking of the one, source, god, duality, nonduality, enlightenment, path, no path,.. etc? If so then meaning or significance is there conceptually for that which is still identified in a conceptual existence. If the one speaking still has his ego in place, then story and character still continue. The ego or slightest sense of individuality is never awakened, enlightened or liberated. It is pricisely that individuality which completely disolves once liberation is there. This conditioned persona and its experience is nothing more than as extended dream as expression

Many confuse a sense of individuality (ego identification) as necessary to carry on in this world. That simply more mind identification conviniently assuming such nonesense in order to sustain its own sense of self importance. What you are is an expression at best, yet that expression has taken on some sort of primary significance. And since one can not be without a psychological and tangible sense of self for more than a milli-second, most retreat back to what is a common illussionary/conditioned existence. However now, we can build a more vast body of spiritual understanding and from this resigned and compromised new stage, we imagine that a more sturdy and evolved absorption can take place next time around. All of this is a continuous cycle until that expession calapses at the original inception which gave birth to a conceptual and experiential world.

Again, it all boils down to a perciever or experiencer still their and thus under the dillusion that its a centralized and primary conduit of its own conceptual world. There is no you post liberation. And in this moment, the you prior to liberation is nothing more than a myth. Thats what fk's with the insatiable need for the ego to remain in the picture.

How I see it, is that there is only a reference of 'oneness' duality, non duality if there is someone/thing present that is relating to it .

There is however beyond all that and beyond someone that can relate to anything .

So where you speak about the origin of the word, one has to likewise speak of the origin of that which relates to the word .

Only the individual ego can renounce the ego or associate oneself as illusory or real .

It's all mind stuff whether there is the understanding had if it's all illusory or not .

Duality exists because you are able to become aware of the difference between being aware of yourself of the mind and being what you are beyond it .

That is the nature of duality ..

For those that say duality is an illusion makes no sense because it is the dual environment that allows one to distinguish / conclude their facts / opinions on the matter .

Non duality is a dual mind construct that points to beyond duality .

Oneness is duality because beyond duality there is no oneness .

illusions are dual in nature, duality isn't the illusion ..



x daz x

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Of course there is no such reality as duality except as illussion. Once individual identity/ perception collapses, its the one once again as it has always been. There is nothing you have to overcome because its not there to begin with. It is obvious. So there is no one in the now either.. neither a now to percieve. Yet all of that is usually more story for most who claim it.

Good, then the waking up you referred to earlier is not a requirement for it is already Oneness asleep! So what you think is required for that waking up, namely the collapse, is also not required for it is already Oneness manifest as the individual identity/perception:). Also it is not necessary to bother about whether One knows something intellectually or has embodied it, for Oneness is both, each the other and the One Love in Action dreaming difference where there is none:).

If there is only the illusion of difference where there is no difference whatsoever then that illusion is all there is to talk about and possible patterns or dynamics within it. Why try to go beyond the dream? Wherever you go will only be more dream, like the concept of Oneness itself:)

One such illusory topic is The Now. Most of us know what we mean when we use that term, namely the present moment in between the past and the future. Using that definition then there is nothing present but The Now and nowhere else to be, for the past is gone and the future is not here yet. What a relief, otherwise we would have to be bothered with working out whether we were in The Now or not:)

[r6r6]

( = concave-convex ergo a simple duality.

Occupied space Universe is all connected as oneness, yet it has numerous dualistic opposities, starting with;

1} Finite occupied space Universe{ somethingness } >< Macro-infinite non-occupied space nothingnesss,

2} convex{ positive } gravity ( ) >< concave{ negative } dark energy )(,

3} matter >< anti-matter,

and this list goes on and on.

Non-duality exists in only two ways;

1} as a metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept,

2} consideration, only the macro-infinite non-occupied space, in-of-itself, that exists beyond our finite, occupied space Universe.

All other talk of non-duality has not rational, logical common sense that I can find.

r6

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

How I see it, is that there is only a reference of 'oneness' duality, non duality if there is someone/thing present that is relating to it .

There is however beyond all that and beyond someone that can relate to anything .

So where you speak about the origin of the word, one has to likewise speak of the origin of that which relates to the word .

Only the individual ego can renounce the ego or associate oneself as illusory or real .

It's all mind stuff whether there is the understanding had if it's all illusory or not .

Duality exists because you are able to become aware of the difference between being aware of yourself of the mind and being what you are beyond it .

That is the nature of duality ..

For those that say duality is an illusion makes no sense because it is the dual environment that allows one to distinguish / conclude their facts / opinions on the matter .

Non duality is a dual mind construct that points to beyond duality .

Oneness is duality because beyond duality there is no oneness .

illusions are dual in nature, duality isn't the illusion ..


x daz x

Nice post Dazzer.
Agreed. In mystical terms this can also be represented as ascending and descending the ladder. Per Jacob.

So to just basically restate what you are saying (as I understand it )...

Meaning, for the purposes of this conversation, it's wherever we choose to locate the focus of our multidimensional consciousness. Will the momentary focus be more at the individuated "end" of the spectrum (where ultimately we are physically embodied for our lifetimes) or at the unity end -- where ultimately it points to What Is beyond all that we know as oneness.

Since we can expand individuated consciousness, we can bring awareness of unity or oneness ever more fully into our waking lives...and this is the work of our lifetimes. But as Buddha said, it's not wise to dwell there, in the emptiness (in our current form)...as dwelling there is not the work of our lifetimes. In other words, incarnation is the time for growth (integration, grounding, expansion, and channeling of consciousness), we hope. Continually ascending and descending the ladder, to ever greater degrees.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

[7luminaries]

Non-duality exists in only two ways;

1} as a metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept,

2} consideration, only the macro-infinite non-occupied space, in-of-itself, that exists beyond our finite, occupied space Universe.

All other talk of non-duality has not rational, logical common sense that I can find.

r6

Yes...agreed. What Dazzer was also saying, as I understand it.
Or....Wherever you go, there you are (a timeless Buddhist saying, also a book title by Jon Kabat-Zinn).

I agree that for us, this is mainly about location or focus of consciousness, and beyond that we cannot say much more.

Peace & blessings
7L