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  #11  
Old 30-12-2016, 10:09 PM
django django is offline
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Is there any difference between this and neo-advaita?
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  #12  
Old 31-12-2016, 12:12 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Originally Posted by django
Is there any difference between this and neo-advaita?
The reason you are asking this question is that you are perceiving similarities. What similarities are you perceiving? Once you have made clear your perception it will be possible to delineate the differences.
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  #13  
Old 31-12-2016, 01:29 AM
django django is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
The reason you are asking this question is that you are perceiving similarities. What similarities are you perceiving? Once you have made clear your perception it will be possible to delineate the differences.

This is a brief synopsis of neo-advaita, there seem to be many similarities to me.

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By and large [neo-advaita] teaches that you are not the body-mind-ego entity and that you are non-dual awareness, both of which are in harmony with tradition. If reality is non-dual, then there is no one that is ignorant of his or her self because knowledge and ignorance are duality. If there is no ignorance of who we are, there is no need for a teaching, a teacher or a student. In non-dual reality there is no body and mind to be something other than the self—awareness—so there is no bondage and no liberation, no suffering and enjoying, no joy and no sorrow. If you are non-dual awareness you cannot do anything, so there are no right and wrong actions. You were never born and you never die and experience does not exist.

http://www.shiningworld.com/site/fil...eo-Advaita.pdf
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  #14  
Old 31-12-2016, 01:49 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
This is a brief synopsis of neo-advaita, there seem to be many similarities to me.

By and large [neo-advaita] teaches that you are not the body-mind-ego entity and that you are non-dual awareness, both of which are in harmony with tradition. If reality is non-dual, then there is no one that is ignorant of his or her self because knowledge and ignorance are duality. If there is no ignorance of who we are, there is no need for a teaching, a teacher or a student. In non-dual reality there is no body and mind to be something other than the self—awareness—so there is no bondage and no liberation, no suffering and enjoying, no joy and no sorrow. If you are non-dual awareness you cannot do anything, so there are no right and wrong actions. You were never born and you never die and experience does not exist.

http://www.shiningworld.com/site/fil...eo-Advaita.pdf


Hmh .. difficult. "you are this or that" certainly is not compatible with buddhist dzogchen because "you are not" is the basis which is non-basis. Also 'reality' is just emptiness of inherent existence, not more and not less, no positing of duality and no positing of non-duality. And there is marigpa or ignorance in dzogchen which is exactly the projection of inherent existence on objects arising due to dynamic energy of awareness.
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  #15  
Old 31-12-2016, 02:42 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
Hmh .. difficult. "you are this or that" certainly is not compatible with buddhist dzogchen because "you are not" is the basis which is non-basis. Also 'reality' is just emptiness of inherent existence, not more and not less, no positing of duality and no positing of non-duality. And there is marigpa or ignorance in dzogchen which is exactly the projection of inherent existence on objects arising due to dynamic energy of awareness.

Hi Ground,

You call it "dynamic energy " but I call it an "escape of reality or form". When someone practice it, it's to not let any reality or form to follow a him , in that way a person of no realty or form can be by himself of normal existence. Then he's healthy and can gain the cosmic energy by himself naturally. Or I maybe wrong but that's what I think of with my current mind.
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  #16  
Old 31-12-2016, 10:20 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong
Hi Ground,

You call it "dynamic energy " but I call it an "escape of reality or form". When someone practice it, it's to not let any reality or form to follow a him , in that way a person of no realty or form can be by himself of normal existence. Then he's healthy and can gain the cosmic energy by himself naturally. Or I maybe wrong but that's what I think of with my current mind.
But there is no escape. The timeless natural condition cannot be escaped from. The natural condition simply is. The point is that the the natural condition knows itself and for the individual this means to let this awareness which is always present shine through the clouds of ignorance or marigpa.
That's a brief paraphrase of the view of Dzogchen.
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  #17  
Old 31-12-2016, 10:27 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
This is a brief synopsis of neo-advaita, there seem to be many similarities to me.
Maybe the most prominent difference is that in contrast to Advaita or Neo-Advaita there is no universal devine consciousness posited in Dzogchen. Dzogchen is based on the madhyamaka view of 'emptiness' where there is no 'absolute' at all.
Having said that there certainly are some or even many practitioners of Dzogchen who actually are practicing 'a kind of Advaita'. Why? Because perception of an alledged 'truth' actually has at its root the ignorance which is identical to that of the perception of an absolute and that ignorance is innate. This ignorance is removed by means of direct introduction to atemporal awareness which is always present. This direct introduction is the starting poin of Dogchen practice. However since after direct introduction the experience of atemporal awareness again fades away the innate ignorance may re-establish itself and the Dzochen view may corrupted by innate 'truth habits' and thus become 'Advaita-like'.
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  #18  
Old 31-12-2016, 11:52 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground
But there is no escape. The timeless natural condition cannot be escaped from. The natural condition simply is. The point is that the the natural condition knows itself and for the individual this means to let this awareness which is always present shine through the clouds of ignorance or marigpa.
That's a brief paraphrase of the view of Dzogchen.

Edited :

The escape of form is what we have for our present or permanent form then the perception of physical body will be following the routine of growth but when we act differently(by the practice) then the perception of our form is messed up to become no-self. Then without the recognition of the form especially the soul and lead the nature of the body to "escape/loose" for that perception.

We can use other method or just by meditation/imagination if you're fit to do so. But we wouldn't change the age to be younger or stop at this age, only our physical body health will benefit the change. It's because the feeling by our consciousness or soul that it's new or fresh and no-self.

This is not a religion, it's only physical and soul practice. I have just a small inspiration for that or maybe I can tell you more next time.

(Sorry I'm a bit tire for I didn't sleep well last night).

Last edited by Jeremy Bong : 31-12-2016 at 01:02 PM.
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  #19  
Old 31-12-2016, 11:59 AM
Ground Ground is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong
The escape of form is that we have our present or permanent form then the perception of physical body will be following the routine to grow but when we act differently(by the practice) then the perception is messed up and of nowhere or no-self. Then without the recognition of the form especially by the soul and the nature then the body has "escaped/lose"the bond with the body.

We can use other method or just by meditation/imagination if you're fit to do so. But we wouldn't change the age because for the health of our physical body it's useful. It's for the consciousness or soul feeling that it's new or fresh.

This is not religion, only physical and soul training. I have just a small inspiration for that or maybe I can tell you more next time.
Sorry but your linguistic expressions aren't compatible with Dzogchen at all. Whatever view you have it certainly isn't Dzogchen.
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  #20  
Old 31-12-2016, 01:06 PM
ajay00 ajay00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elijah
The View and Meditation of Dzogchen can be explained in many, many ways, but simply sustaining the essence of present awareness includes them all. Your mind won't be found elsewhere. It is the very nature of this moment-to-moment thinking. Regard nakedly the essence of this thinking and you find present awareness, right where you are.

Why chase after thoughts, which are superficial ripples of present awareness? Rather look directly into the naked, empty nature of thoughts; then there is no duality, no observer, and nothing observed. Simply rest in this transparent, nondual present awareness. Make yourself at home in the natural state of pure presence, just being, not doing anything in particular.

Present awareness is empty, open, and luminous; not a concrete substance, yet not nothing. Empty, yet it is perfectly cognizant, lucid, aware. As if magically, not by causing to be aware, but innately aware, awareness continuously functions. These two sides of present awareness or Rigpa-its emptiness and its cognizance (lucidity)-are inseparable.

Emptiness and luminosity (knowing) are inseparable. They are formless, as if nothing whatsoever, ungraspable, unborn, undying; yet spacious, vivid, buoyant. Nothing whatsoever, yet Emaho!, everything is magically experienced. Simply recognize this. Look into the magical mirror of mind and appreciate this infinite magical display.

With constant, vigilant mindfulness, sustain this recognition of empty, open, brilliant awareness. Cultivate nothing else. There is nothing else to do, or to undo. Let it remain naturally. Don't spoil it by manipulating, by controlling, by tampering with it, and worrying about whether you are right or wrong, or having a good meditation or a bad meditation. Leave it as it is, and rest your weary heart and mind.

The ultimate luminosity of Dharmakaya, absolute truth, is nothing other than the very nature of this uncontrived, ordinary mind. Don't look elsewhere for the Buddha. It is nothing other than the nature of this present awareness. This is the Buddha within.

There are innumerable Dharma teachings. There are many antidotes to many different kinds of spiritual diseases. There are many words in the Mahamudra and Dzogchen nondual teachings. But the root, the heart of all practices is included here, in simply sustaining the luminous nature of this present awareness.

If you search elsewhere for something better, a Buddha superior to this present awareness, you are deluding yourself. You are chained, entangled in the barbed wire of hope and fear. So give it up! Simply sustain present wakefulness, moment after moment. Devotion, compassion, and perfecting virtue and wisdom are the most important supportive methods for completely fulfilling this naked, nondual teaching about present awareness, the innate Dharmakaya. So always devote yourself to spiritual practice for the benefit of others and apply yourself in body, speech, and mind to what is wholesome and virtuous.

Source: http://freddieyam.com/p/jamgon.html

Great post, Elijah. Brilliantly put.
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When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always. ~ Swami Satchidananda

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the (turbulent) mind. ~ Rajini Menon
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