The main goal of Buddhism?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Yes, it could be viewed this way. The vision bridging an awareness of others who he realized could share in what had become known to him.

Do you know if Buddha mentioned a believe in 'The Universe', 'God' or 'The Greater Plan' somewhere in his teachings?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Serrao

Can you conclude then, that 7+ billion people surely didn't achieve Nirvana in their previous incarnation? Including you and me?

Personally I don't conclude anything in that sense, and I'm not sure of anything, but the way I see it is, everything rises from the depth of consciousness and goes through its process of change and then dissolves again, and what we think of as an individual is also like that.

My view is that there is nothing anyone can do speed up the process because the fundamental principle is cessation, not keep doing. People call this allowing, surrender, letting go and so on but these all fundamentally mean ceasing to grasp cling and control.

The teaching says that suffering arises in craving and aversion, and these generally refer to mental reactivity. In the Pali language they talk about Sankara's which doesn't have a direct English translation, but it means both reactivity and what we might call emotional blocks. Blocks are also generated and held in place by reactivity, and that action of reactivity is the psychic energy that perpetuates ego, and hence suffering.

The teachings say that at the time of death, a person has a huge reaction to loss of life, and thus gives a strong push which perpetuates the egoic mind, which arises as a reborn mind/body.

This means when reactivity, aversion/craving, ceases, that means the psychological activity that holds blocks ceases and these all begin to process unwind unravel and ultimately dissolve, hence purifying the mind body of 'sankaras', and secondly, since the reactive psychic energy ceases, at death there is nothing to 'reconstruct' a rebirth. This also marks the end of ego, which Buddhists call annata, and therefore enlightenment doesn't actually happen to a person,... But is the end of false perception of there being one.

[Within Silence]

Originally posted by Gem "This also marks the end of ego, which Buddhists call annata, and therefore enlightenment doesn't actually happen to a person,... But is the end of false perception of there being one."

^^^^That's it in a nutshell. The whole attempt to achieve Nirvana is like the sun trying to achieve light...IT IS.

There is nothing to achieve because there is no separate entity to achieve it, thus this whole attempt at achieving, at striving, at struggling to become is itself egoic. The desire to be saved, to reach Nirvana, to become enlightened is the result of a supposed separate identity which is in bondage due to its ignorance of not knowing who/what its always been. Desire to become is itself bondage, bondage is itself the result of That Which Is not knowing who/what IT HAS always been, and ever shall BE. What's ironic is that there is no one in bondage either but I must use these concept to point to the truth. Every birth is IT, every death is IT, there is nothing else besides IT, and everyone and everything is the expression of IT. You are free, always have been and ever shall be because at the root of being there is only you, and you are also everything else, it is itself so, there is no separation, never has been and never could be. You believing you are not free and need to be saved, enlightened, or in Nirvana is to at once leave freedom, enlightenment and the state of nirvana. Again, this would be like the sun trying to become the light of the moon, which its always been, it cannot not be what its always been. But you are free to play the game with yourself as long as you like.

Ask yourself, how could you be free to believe you need to reach enlightenment or nirvana unless you're already free? What many try to reach are their concepts of what enlightenment or nirvana is supposed to be. Now, I am not saying there are not altered states of consciousness, you can go very deeply into yourself, but you are already consciousness you don't need to become it.

The whole Buddhist/Taoist teachings are a Way to: an ending of illusion, a losing, a dropping away, a cessation of, a returning, remembering, re-cognizing, revealing, dis-covering, etc. who/what you've always been.

Here is an article that may help understand:

Zen Teachings of Huang Po
- Huang Po (d. 850)
Our original Buddha-Nature is, in highest truth, devoid of any atom of objectivity. It is void, omnipresent, silent, pure; it is glorious and mysterious peaceful joy — and that is all. Enter deeply into it by awakening to it yourself. That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete. There is naught beside.

Even if you go through all the stages of a Bodhisattva's progress toward Buddhahood, one by one; when at last, in a single flash, you attain to full realization, you will only be realizing the Buddha-Nature which has been with you all the time; and by all the foregoing stages you will have added to it nothing at all.

You will come to look upon all those eons of work and achievement as no better than unreal actions performed in a dream. That is why the Tathagata said, "I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled Enlightenment. Had there been anything attained, Dipamkara Buddha would not have made the prophecy concerning me." He also said, "This Dharma is absolutely without distinctions, neither high nor low, and its name is Bodhi."

It is pure Mind, which is the source of everything and which, whether appearing as sentient beings or as Buddhas, as the rivers and mountains of the world which has form, as that which is formless, or as penetrating the whole universe absolutely without distinctions, there being no such entities as selfness and otherness.

This pure Mind, the source of everything, shines forever and on all with the brilliance of its own perfection. But the people of the world do not awaken to it, regarding only that which sees, hears, feels and knows as mind. Blinded by their own sight, hearing, feeling and knowing, they do not perceive the spiritual brilliance of the source-substance. If they would only eliminate all conceptual thought in a flash, that source-substance would manifest itself like the sun ascending through the void and illuminating the whole universe without hindrance or bounds.

Therefore, if you students of the Way seek to progress through seeing, hearing, feeling and knowing, when you are deprived of your perceptions, your way to Mind will be cut off and you will find nowhere to enter. Only realize that, though real Mind is expressed in these perceptions it neither forms part of them nor is separate from them.

You should not start reasoning from these perceptions, nor allow them to give rise to conceptual thought; yet, nor should you seek the One Mind apart from them or abandon them in your pursuit of the Dharma. Do not keep them nor abandon them nor dwell in them nor cleave to them. Above, below and around you, all is spontaneously existing, for there is nowhere which is outside the Buddha-Mind.

When people of the world hear it said that the Buddhas transmit the Doctrine of the Mind, they suppose that there is something to be attained or realized apart from Mind, and thereupon they use Mind to seek the Dharma, not knowing that Mind and the object of their search are one. Mind cannot be used to seek something apart from Mind; for then, after the passing of millions of eons, the day of success will still not have dawned. Such a method is not to be compared with suddenly eliminating conceptual thought, which is the fundamental Dharma.

Suppose a warrior, forgetting that he was already wearing his pearl on his forehead, were to seek for it elsewhere, he could travel the whole world without finding it. But if someone who knew what was wrong were to point it out to him, the warrior would immediately realize that the pearl had been there all the time. So, if you students of the Way are mistaken about your own real Mind, not recognizing that it is the Buddha, you will consequently look for him everywhere, indulging in various achievements and practices and expecting to attain realization by such graduated practices.

But even after eons of diligent searching, you will not be able to attain to the Way. These methods cannot be compared to the sudden elimination of conceptual thought, in the certain knowledge that there is nothing at all which has absolute existence, nothing on which to lay hold, nothing on which to rely, nothing in which to abide, nothing subjective or objective.

It is by preventing the rise of conceptual thought that you will realize Bodhi; and, when you do, you will just be realizing the Buddha who has always existed in your own Mind! Eons of striving will prove to be so much wasted effort; just as, when the warrior found his pearl, he merely discovered what had been hanging on this forehead all the time; and just as his finding of it had nothing to do with his efforts to discover it elsewhere.

Therefore the Buddha said, "I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled Enlightenment." It was for fear that people would not believe this that he drew upon what is seen with the five sorts of vision and spoken with the five kinds of speech. So this quotation is by no means empty talk, but expresses the highest truth.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Gem

This means when reactivity, aversion/craving, ceases, that means the psychological activity that holds blocks ceases and these all begin to process unwind unravel and ultimately dissolve, hence purifying the mind body of 'sankaras', and secondly, since the reactive psychic energy ceases, at death there is nothing to 'reconstruct' a rebirth. This also marks the end of ego, which Buddhists call annata, and therefore enlightenment doesn't actually happen to a person,... But is the end of false perception of there being one.

Is there a description of beings who attained Nirvana somewhere in the teachings of Buddha?

Where do they reside?
Do they have a human appearance?
Or do they cease to exist altogether?

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

There is nothing to achieve because there is no separate entity to achieve it, thus this whole attempt at achieving, at striving, at struggling to become is itself egoic. The desire to be saved, to reach Nirvana, to become enlightened is the result of a supposed separate identity which is in bondage due to its ignorance of not knowing who/what its always been. Desire to become is itself bondage, bondage is itself the result of That Which Is not knowing who/what IT HAS always been, and ever shall BE. What's ironic is that there is no one in bondage either but I must use these concept to point to the truth. Every birth is IT, every death is IT, there is nothing else besides IT, and everyone and everything is the expression of IT. You are free, always have been and ever shall be because at the root of being there is only you, and you are also everything else, it is itself so, there is no separation, never has been and never could be. You believing you are not free and need to be saved, enlightened, or in Nirvana is to at once leave freedom, enlightenment and the state of nirvana. Again, this would be like the sun trying to become the light of the moon, which its always been, it cannot not be what its always been. But you are free to play the game with yourself as long as you like.

I wonder what all those people who seriously struggle with life would say about this.
In my experience stress really holds back development.
And stress is too real to cease by just thinking one has no stress.

In my view the achievement of liberation is more than "simply knowing" you are already liberated.
I think liberation is a (very) slow process of serious dedication.

Step by step, mile by mile...and eventually you arive there.

Krishna says this same thing in verse 6.45 of the Bhagavad Gita:
But when the yogī engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress, being washed of all contaminations, then ultimately, after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal.

[Within Silence]

I am not saying there is no "work to be done" but as Huang Po states, what one is real-eyes-ing is what's been the whole time.

Stress is in truth not real, but we talk about it as if it is, kinda like ego. If stress is real then please put it in a bottle and sell it to me. Thus, it cannot be done because stress is nothing more than excessive thinking. Hence the Taoist teaching; "Stop thinking and end your problems" but since this world is driven by money they sell us cures for stress which reinforces the belief that it exists. One doesn't have stress because it has nothing on its mind, just as one doesn't have cancer because its deficient in radiation! Stress, or the state we label with the word stress is an imbalance, which is too many thoughts, and to return some thing to balance all that is needed is to apply its opposite, hence less thinking.

I have my own remedy for "stress" which is to grab a large empty bowl, sit down and put the bowl in front of me. Then I take all those stressful thoughts and put them in the bowl so I can sort through them and see their validity, their actuality. And the bowl remains empty! Where is stress to be found but within my own thoughts, hence stress is excessive thinking, obsessive thinking, being caught up in thoughts, which is to be caught in the trap of time, past/future which is to waste the present in "places" that do not exist. What do you think meditation is for..to see your way out of this trap.

But if you desire to spend lifetimes in practice, then great, you are free to do so. Enjoy. I have nowhere to arrive at, nowhere to go, nothing to become, nothing to attain, and thus am free to enjoy life as it presents itself.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

Stress is in truth not real, but we talk about it as if it is, kinda like ego. If stress is real then please put it in a bottle and sell it to me. Thus, it cannot be done because stress is nothing more than excessive thinking. Hence the Taoist teaching; "Stop thinking and end your problems" but since this world is driven by money they sell us cures for stress which reinforces the belief that it exists. One doesn't have stress because it has nothing on its mind, just as one doesn't have cancer because its deficient in radiation! Stress, or the state we label with the word stress is an imbalance, which is too many thoughts, and to return some thing to balance all that is needed is to apply its opposite, hence less thinking.

I have my own remedy for "stress" which is to grab a large empty bowl, sit down and put the bowl in front of me. Then I take all those stressful thoughts and put them in the bowl so I can sort through them and see their validity, their actuality. And the bowl remains empty! Where is stress to be found but within my own thoughts, hence stress is excessive thinking, obsessive thinking, being caught up in thoughts, which is to be caught in the trap of time, past/future which is to waste the present in "places" that do not exist. What do you think meditation is for..to see your way out of this trap.

So when someone is hungry because they are too poor to afford decent meals, they should just stop thinking they are hungry?

Originally Posted by Within Silence

But if you desire to spend lifetimes in practice, then great, you are free to do so. Enjoy.

There are many roads to Rome, they say.

Originally Posted by Within Silence

I have nowhere to arrive at, nowhere to go, nothing to become, nothing to attain, and thus am free to enjoy life as it presents itself.

I have to agree; a very enlightening view.

[Within Silence]

"So when someone is hungry because they are too poor to afford decent meals, they should just stop thinking they are hungry?"

^^^This is physical stress, not psychological stress as the result of thinking. One who is starving is not "thinking" they are hungry, the body is in fact in need of food and so sends out the signal/pain/appetite which we have used the word hunger to describe. No, they should not stop thinking they are hungry, as they are not thinking they are hungry, they are in fact hungry regardless of the thought, as, thinking about hunger does not cause actual hunger, nor does thinking one is not hungry cause the cessation of hunger, they need to start thinking of where to get food. The point being to see what the truth of the immediate present is, not what one conceives it to be in mind. One can think about food but this cannot cause one to be satiated. All life is the practice of balance, balance in mind/body/spirit.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Within Silence

"So when someone is hungry because they are too poor to afford decent meals, they should just stop thinking they are hungry?"

^^^This is physical stress, not psychological stress as the result of thinking. One who is starving is not "thinking" they are hungry, the body is in fact in need of food and so sends out the signal/pain/appetite which we have used the word hunger to describe. No, they should not stop thinking they are hungry, as they are not thinking they are hungry, they are in fact hungry regardless of the thought, as, thinking about hunger does not cause actual hunger, nor does thinking one is not hungry cause the cessation of hunger, they need to start thinking of where to get food. The point being to see what the truth of the immediate present is, not what one conceives it to be in mind. One can think about food but this cannot cause one to be satiated. All life is the practice of balance, balance in mind/body/spirit.

Do you have an example of a thought which is not related to the material?

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Gem

Personally I don't conclude anything in that sense, and I'm not sure of anything, but the way I see it is, everything rises from the depth of consciousness and goes through its process of change and then dissolves again, and what we think of as an individual is also like that.

My view is that there is nothing anyone can do speed up the process because the fundamental principle is cessation, not keep doing. People call this allowing, surrender, letting go and so on but these all fundamentally mean ceasing to grasp cling and control.

The teaching says that suffering arises in craving and aversion, and these generally refer to mental reactivity. In the Pali language they talk about Sankara's which doesn't have a direct English translation, but it means both reactivity and what we might call emotional blocks. Blocks are also generated and held in place by reactivity, and that action of reactivity is the psychic energy that perpetuates ego, and hence suffering.

The teachings say that at the time of death, a person has a huge reaction to loss of life, and thus gives a strong push which perpetuates the egoic mind, which arises as a reborn mind/body.

This means when reactivity, aversion/craving, ceases, that means the psychological activity that holds blocks ceases and these all begin to process unwind unravel and ultimately dissolve, hence purifying the mind body of 'sankaras', and secondly, since the reactive psychic energy ceases, at death there is nothing to 'reconstruct' a rebirth. This also marks the end of ego, which Buddhists call annata, and therefore enlightenment doesn't actually happen to a person,... But is the end of false perception of there being one.

Is it true that Gods never suffered? Or no suffering? Not at all. Gods also can suffering hunger or pain.......but more advance in all aspects.

As reincarnation : what that reburn is only astral light ( life) that hanged down by parents to his/her descendants. It has no shape at the beginning and will follow their parents faces when growing to a baby.