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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #521  
Old 12-12-2011, 03:44 PM
TzuJanLi
Posts: n/a
 
Greetings..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
Love represents many forms of shared caring, compassion, forgiveness, giving, sharing, supporting, and many other forms of shared understanding, that result in human relationships forming. And since the human race evolved, rather than self-destructed, I believe the innate nature of caring was the crucial ingredient that allowed the human race to evolve, rather than create their own selfish demise, without a worded or reasoned explanation of why.



May I attempt a respectful challenge to anyone who seeks to, analyse my answers, to then respond with question. Please do so, but consider a response that reflects your own answers, rather than only focusing on the validity of my own, it`s just a suggestion.
Hi Papa Bear: The question i will pose represents my own understanding and its relationship to your first paragraph, above.. i am curious as to why the broad brush of 'Love' is used when you so articulately expressed very nuanced descriptions of 'feeling' the experiences of 'Life'.. the broad brush of 'Love' is fertile with misunderstandings, why not explore the fine details of nuanced expressions which can illuminate the rich diversity of feelings.. the word 'Love' seems like a fall-back position or a catch-all term to avoid the adventure of exploring or really discovering the depth of our relationships with each other and with Life.. anyway, that's my perspective, not an assertion of truth, but an invitation for discussion..

Be well..
  #522  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Papa Bear Papa Bear is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,208
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
I have created a thread, `formlessness and the human rational` seeking to explore that very area, how words and predetermined meanings often cloud the nature our natural experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
The words chosen do not cloud the experience of the one who has had the expereince....lol

While that may be true, to the individual, when considering the experience itself, how and where it unfolds, the causes of the effects, these may be the same, that two individuals experience, but if one translates a religious, mystical, bliss consciousness in formlessness, in an ethereal or astral or Spiritual condition, while the other, reflects a stillness in energy formulations which are universal and individual, part in one whole, that is within material energies, difference may be translated from what may have been the same experience.

Though they may in reality have experienced the same conditions, in essence the same formlessness as experience, it is the translated differences in worded reflection, which interpret a single clarity of awareness, into what becomes two translations, one of a Spiritual nature, the other a raised human awareness. And while both are as valid as raised awareness experiences in a formless condition that, reflects like a blank canvas awaiting new influences, when translated they form worded reason for comparative difference.

I in my early stages of Spiritual development, within a spiritualist healing circle, was encouraged to heal myself. During a year of doing so, on a routine basis, I discovered an awareness of the flow of energies, from specific areas. I focused on them, controlling and manipulating their flow and influence, which I I could feel, as any effected change happened within me. I came to master those energies, energies I associated within and part of my human nature, thus part of the natural universe.

When later, I was encouraged to heal others, I instinctively followed a similar process I had used on myself, I found those same energy currents, in others, tried to balance and purify their energies. The results were startling, to me and the people I healed, they found themselves in deep trance states, and I discovered a Clair, clairsentience, because I could recognize the invisible presence of another being, directly influencing the person I had just healed.
That repeated, rather than being a unique shared experience, it became a natural cause and effect.

That led, later, to me being invited to become an active supporter of those in development, in a Spiritual development circle. It was during this phase of my interactive Spiritual mediumistic development, that I came across, a written reflection of `chakra`s`. What I read, I already knew, from my own experience, BEFORE, the word `chakra` or its referencing entered my conscious awareness. The point being, I went from association to natural human materially produced energies, to ethereal, astral and Spiritual association. So on my own, I had the disagreement within myself, when contemplating whether a natural resource was a part of the material biological universe, as opposed to a Spiritual one.

The result was evolution; one did not replace the other, because both are as valid as each other, learning to discern one from the other, became my Spiritual development. As learning to discern the same differences when detached from human sense or thought in ethereal experience. The differences are words in translation, because the differing energies are of the same mother source. So their experiences are the same, part in a process of evolving understanding and awareness, we may individually and collectively share and learn from, if or when we `ALL` pause to respect the validity of all our experiences, no matter the varied terms of translated explanation of their meaning.

Quote:
What do you hope to gain by rationalizing until an agreement on the words is found?
Validation?
I'm confused.......
Refer to above, and every reference I have made to not rationalizing through words, but respecting experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
this is the core reasoning of much disagreement on site, not the content of experience but the words chosen to explain or define those experiences.

Quote:
Are we here just to agree on our experiences?
Maybe the underlying core reasoning is the need to find agreement between our individual experiences.......

YES in respect of each others experiences.

Respect James
__________________
Peace be with you
  #523  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:20 PM
Papa Bear Papa Bear is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,208
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Greetings..


Hi Papa Bear: The question i will pose represents my own understanding and its relationship to your first paragraph, above.. i am curious as to why the broad brush of 'Love' is used when you so articulately expressed very nuanced descriptions of 'feeling' the experiences of 'Life'.. the broad brush of 'Love' is fertile with misunderstandings, why not explore the fine details of nuanced expressions which can illuminate the rich diversity of feelings.. the word 'Love' seems like a fall-back position or a catch-all term to avoid the adventure of exploring or really discovering the depth of our relationships with each other and with Life.. anyway, that's my perspective, not an assertion of truth, but an invitation for discussion..

Be well..

Hi Tzu,the origional post motivates my use of the term love, but I am more than enthused with your suggestion, after I catch my breath and a cup of earl grey.
__________________
Peace be with you
  #524  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:27 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,750
  BlueSky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
While that may be true, to the individual, when considering the experience itself, how and where it unfolds, the causes of the effects, these may be the same, that two individuals experience, but if one translates a religious, mystical, bliss consciousness in formlessness, in an ethereal or astral or Spiritual condition, while the other, reflects a stillness in energy formulations which are universal and individual, part in one whole, that is within material energies, difference may be translated from what may have been the same experience.

Though they may in reality have experienced the same conditions, in essence the same formlessness as experience, it is the translated differences in worded reflection, which interpret a single clarity of awareness, into what becomes two translations, one of a Spiritual nature, the other a raised human awareness. And while both are as valid as raised awareness experiences in a formless condition that, reflects like a blank canvas awaiting new influences, when translated they form worded reason for comparative difference.

I in my early stages of Spiritual development, within a spiritualist healing circle, was encouraged to heal myself. During a year of doing so, on a routine basis, I discovered an awareness of the flow of energies, from specific areas. I focused on them, controlling and manipulating their flow and influence, which I I could feel, as any effected change happened within me. I came to master those energies, energies I associated within and part of my human nature, thus part of the natural universe.

When later, I was encouraged to heal others, I instinctively followed a similar process I had used on myself, I found those same energy currents, in others, tried to balance and purify their energies. The results were startling, to me and the people I healed, they found themselves in deep trance states, and I discovered a Clair, clairsentience, because I could recognize the invisible presence of another being, directly influencing the person I had just healed.
That repeated, rather than being a unique shared experience, it became a natural cause and effect.

That led, later, to me being invited to become an active supporter of those in development, in a Spiritual development circle. It was during this phase of my interactive Spiritual mediumistic development, that I came across, a written reflection of `chakra`s`. What I read, I already knew, from my own experience, BEFORE, the word `chakra` or its referencing entered my conscious awareness. The point being, I went from association to natural human materially produced energies, to ethereal, astral and Spiritual association. So on my own, I had the disagreement within myself, when contemplating whether a natural resource was a part of the material biological universe, as opposed to a Spiritual one.

The result was evolution; one did not replace the other, because both are as valid as each other, learning to discern one from the other, became my Spiritual development. As learning to discern the same differences when detached from human sense or thought in ethereal experience. The differences are words in translation, because the differing energies are of the same mother source. So their experiences are the same, part in a process of evolving understanding and awareness, we may individually and collectively share and learn from, if or when we `ALL` pause to respect the validity of all our experiences, no matter the varied terms of translated explanation of their meaning.


Refer to above, and every reference I have made to not rationalizing through words, but respecting experiences.




YES in respect of each others experiences.

Respect James

Huh?

Sorry but as many times as I read that, I can't make heads or tails out of it as it relates to what I said.
I've been here before with others and my findings were that we were talking about two different things altogether.
I think that is the case now. No need to try and elaborate. It's cool.
Thanks for your response....

Blessings, James
  #525  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Papa Bear Papa Bear is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,208
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteShaman
Huh?

Sorry but as many times as I read that, I can't make heads or tails out of it as it relates to what I said.
I've been here before with others and my findings were that we were talking about two different things altogether.
I think that is the case now. No need to try and elaborate. It's cool.
Thanks for your response....

Blessings, James

Sorry James my head must have been in a wider context of comunication on site, my apologies for the misinperpretation. My goodness.
__________________
Peace be with you
  #526  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:45 PM
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,750
  BlueSky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
Sorry James my head must have been in a wider context of comunication on site, my apologies for the misinperpretation. My goodness.

No need for sorries.............it's probably just me.

It's just a miscommunication.
  #527  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:53 PM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
THANK YOU AC (yes................. )
You're most welcome, will respond fully to your previous post asap

PS. sometimes the quote function will glitch up. tempermental old thing it is.
that's why I do if offline in Wordpad, and even so it still may glitch up in forum
Sometimes it takes a couple of copy and pastes to rectify.

I have learnt that when copying from forum to wordpad, specify pasting as unformatted text.
I have also noticed I get more glitches from the library net cafe than i do at home, which equates to library=internet explorer, home=firefox.
  #528  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:56 PM
Papa Bear Papa Bear is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,208
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark
You're most welcome, will respond fully to your previous post asap

PS. sometimes the quote function will glitch up. tempermental old thing it is.
that's why I do if offline in Wordpad, and even so it still may glitch up in forum
Sometimes it takes a couple of copy and pastes to rectify.

I have learnt that when copying from foum to wordpad, specify pasting as unformatted text.
I have also noticed I get more glitches from the library net cafe than i do at home, which equates to library=internet explorer, home=firefox.

Whatever comes AC, you have empowered me, thanks again.
__________________
Peace be with you
  #529  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Of course I respect your decision as conveyed by my explanation that my queries and expressions of my point of view were not a form of emotional or psychological manipulation to get you to change your mind.
I was simply discussing the issue, not trying to coerce you in any direction.

I have pondered the ignore function in the not too distant past, but then I realized for myself, for my own journey, that stopping communication was not the path for me regardless of how painful it might become by keeping communication channels open.

I understand you reasons for your choice, and do not devalue my opinion of you for it.

I am able to keep communication channels open for the simple but profound and beautiful reason that I no longer become offended by others, whether their actions are intentional or not.

This ability had only kicked in since 2009. A huge transformation considering the 40+ years of constantly feeling offended, even for miniscule incidents.
It's now as natural and easy as breathing and I'm only conscious of it when a topic sheds light on it.
Greetings..

Hi PB:
~smiles~Umm, I be AC, Tzu
Quote:
I am not in the least offended by Humm's personal attacks.. i chose to use the ignore function to keep threads clear of the debris of the interactions between Humm and me..
Then you and I differ again. I enjoy the "debris", because I get to see more of the person whom is expressing it.
Quote:
Humm is proactive in his defense of Xan and in his beliefs about my motives, and.. in his passion for his beliefs he looses sight of the reality of the discussions..
Then equally is it possible that you are also losing sight by your beliefs, and\or focus on his, according to your perception, his proactive defense and beliefs about you?

Tzu, and I am not referring to Humm or anyone specific, if I choose to confront someone I will do so openly and directly...
Tzu, I see clearly when a person takes a subtle pot shot at me, trying to bait me emotionally, divert away from the issue, side step with irrational words or behavior, and all the other stuff.
I simply don't react to it. I just keep to the the discussion that I assumed the person wanted to discuss.
Quote:
i challenge ideas and concepts, he challenges 'me', the person.. so, it's not that Humm offends me, it is that there are consequences in this forum for certain behaviors, and i have chosen to defuse the potential for consequences..
Like i said, I do not dispute your decision, just discussing it.
When a person challenges me I simply enquire as to why, or i just leave it and continue with the discussion.
When I do enquire I am genuinely interested as to why they are doing so.
My initial theory as to why a person attacks me, or even my ideas for that matter is they feel threatened and the old fight/flight system kicks in.
They will either avoid or attack.

If I can discover why they feel threatened, I can adapt my word usage so they will not feel threatened.
If something I am doing, unintentionally because i do not know why they feel threatened,
if I am doing this, I wiould like to find out what freaks them out, thus change, thus they won't freak out and we can then have a more open and honest discussion.

It doesn't bother me when a person attacks me, I'm not going to do anything that will warrant "consequences in this forum for certain behaviors"
I appreciate their openess and honesty to express what they think and feel.
Quote:
I would welcome open and honest dialogue with anyone, but..
But Tzu, when a person attacks you personally, they are openly and honestly doing so to the best of their ability.
There's your open and honest discussion, discuss that with them, it's obvious they want to.
Quote:
too often, when the questions expose issues that the other party is unwilling to look at objectively, the discussion is shut down..
They are looking at it from their perspective, you are looking at it from your perspective.
Who decides if someone else is objective enough or not?
Are they unwillingly doing so, or are struggling with inner issues\wounds that restricts them?
Quote:
the admonishment to back off at that point simply empowers the status quo, reinforcing the usefulness of unilateral rejection of an agreed examination of the issues..
What status quo? Does a status quo have power over an individual?
Quote:
so, rather than scatter the debris of pointless attempts at reconciliation,
Reconcilliation is never pointless. It may be a long and hard road through the "debris" to reach it, but it's worth it.
Of course there is no guarantee of success, but one will never know success is achievable if one does not try.
Quote:
i simply clean up the mess.. and, yes, i realize that the 'mess' is as much my own issue as that of others, hence the choice to 'prune the tree'..
If you are aware you are also responsible for the "mess", what "debris" are you bringing to the table and what changes are you implimenting?
  #530  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:18 PM
Mountain-Goat
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
Whatever comes AC, you have empowered me, thanks again.
~smiles~ Again, you're welcome.
Thought it is not I that has empowered you.
Yes i have offered intel, and i do not dimmish the importance of this act,
but it is you that has empowered yourself by recieiving the intel and using it.
If you did not recieve and use, no empowerment, yes?

Empowerment comes from within, not without.
Empowerment is when self engages one's own infinite energy to whatever one choose to channel it through.
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