Dark Matter

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Normal matter is the stuff you and I get all over our face when someone throws a coconut cream pie at us. We can taste it, see it, feel it, weigh it, throw it around. Normal matter has substance; it occupies space. It matters because it gets in our way. Scientists are divided into two schools of thought about normal matter. The first group follows in the footsteps of Issac Newton and considers matter to be a serious matter. The other school follows Groucho Marx (not to be confused with the prophet of historical determinism, his cousin Karl) who maintain that matter is a laughing matter. The disciples of Sigmund Freud are mostly concerned with gray matter. My uncle Josh belonged to the Apathetic School, and claimed it doesn't matter.

Black holes are both the generators and repositories of dark matter. That is why when you pour a bucketful of light into a black hole you can't ever get it out again. The light becomes dark matter, and everyone knows that light and dark are antipathetic. Like the proverbial cake, you can't have your dark and have light too.

The scientific truth of the matter is that energy and matter are just two forms of one and the same thing. The thing that determines which form dominates is the speed of light. When energy comes to a school zone and has to slow down it turns into matter. If the crossing guard steps into the street holding her stop-sign on high, the normal matter that we all know and love becomes dark matter. Lord Kelvin knew this when he invented the thermometer. Dark matter is energy overcome by entropy.

Scientists make up exotic terms so they can keep their jobs. No one ever heard of gravity until Newton came along and wanted a chair at Oxford. Everyone knew that when an apple falls out of a tree it falls down; who ever saw an apple fall up. So Newton said that apples are ruled by gravity, and because no one understood what gravity was (and still don't) they thought he was brilliant and gave him the chair so he could train unemployed Cockneys to get a good job talking about gravity. Then along came Einstein who said that gravity wasn't a force, but was really sort of a dimple in space. No one understood what he was talking about so they thought he was brilliant and gave him a chair too, but not at Oxford. All the chairs at Oxford were full of fat behinds, so they gave him a chair at Princeton.

Now the scientists come along and invent dark matter so they can get funding for a research project. No one has ever seen it. No one has ever poured it out of a bottle and into a glass. And the whole idea of dark matter rests on gravity. Apples were simple; they fell down. If dark matter really exists, then the answer is simple. The whole universe is falling down. We are doomed. Besides, who needs gravity when we have apples? You can eat apples; I never heard of anyone baking a gravity pie.

I hope this throws some light on the matter of dark matter.

When you become an old man with nothing important to do of a Thursday morning, this is what happens to you.

Uh-oh! Gb can be a real hoot ~ and what a way to rev up my morning. ~smile~

I guess this is an old thread/post, but the first I've run across it.




Oh, and Kepler > Lighten up.

I am pondering. If you ask Leibniz who invented calculus he won't say Newton.

Kepler not only believed in astrology, he was actually an astrologer. And he had a chair, paid for by the Holy Roman Empire. Can you imagine such an airhead actually doing any real science? He thought that planets followed eliptical orbits. Preposterous.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I am pondering. If you ask Leibniz who invented calculus he won't say Newton.

Hence why I said "practically". It's pretty well established that they both contributed much to the field, and there was a lot of overlapping material that they both independently discovered.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

It is a difficult task to shed light on dark matter.

That's profound AND funny!

Now then Mr. Kepler, Jr.....

Here is something to ponder.

I said that Einstein said that gravity was a dimple in space.
You said that gravity was a force caused by the dimple.

As a graphic aid to thought, you might look at this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oints2.svg.png. It depicts the inner solar system by using isotropic lines (energy potential combining gravitational and centrifugal forces) and shows the dimples.

So.....
What we are saying here is that gravity is a force caused by space running uphill or downhill (with respect to its local dimple), the dimple being caused by a mass (a planet, for example) being located at some point in it, or by the interaction of several masses combined with their respective motions -- which creates a dynamic gravitational system.....

Which leads us back to the question: "Why does an apple fall down?"

We might recall that Einstein also said that gravity can be caused by motion (acceleration) as well as mass... (His analogy with the effects of an elevator).

I am still pondering, although mowiing the lawn may take precedence.

I might add, just to tease you.... Despite our huge advances in understanding the universe, we do not know the fundamental nature of things. We can describe such things as gravity, mass, energy, motion, spacetime.... but we still do not understand their fundamental nature. Ponder that; it will require some ponderous thought.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Which leads us back to the question: "Why does an apple fall down?"

Because there is a gravitational force between the earth and apple.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I might add, just to tease you.... Despite our huge advances in understanding the universe, we do not know the fundamental nature of things. We can describe such things as gravity, mass, energy, motion, spacetime.... but we still do not understand their fundamental nature. Ponder that; it will require some ponderous thought.

Define "fundamental". What else could science possibly do besides "describe" things? I'm not sure I see much to ponder here. Science is a flawed, limited approximation to reality. However, it appears (look around you) that it is the best method we have for making sense of things.


"Why does the apple fall?"
Gravitational force.
"Why is there a gravitational force?"
Because objects with mass create a gravitational field.
"Why do objects with mass create a gravitational field?"
Because they warp space.
"Why do ..."
etc, etc.

I'm am not sure why it is surprising or profound that as we dig deeper into nature we are left with more unanswered questions than when we started.

This Dark Matter indeed is fascinating. Space makes us question our own "laws" pf Physics.

I understand.
Keep it Simple.
Don't Rock the Boat.
Children Are to Be Seen, Not Heard.
Do Not Question Established Doctrine....

Which is what Einstein didn't do.

Kepler discovered the Laws of Planetary Orbits by taking what had been rejected as "too simple" for at least 2,000 years and trying it again.

Newton shocked the world with "gravity".
But it is interesting to note that Newtonian gravity is instantaneous; it "travels" faster than the speed of light and affects everything within its field, which stretches out to infinity, instantlly. Relativistic gravity is a slowpoke.

I'm sorry, but this old man will continue to ask dumb questions. If a person accepts "science" as their religion, and conceives of the universe as a mechanistic clockwork, that is well and good. Such an outlook is full enough of wonders to last a lifetime. But some of us perceive something deeper, beyond the mechanism, and so we look under rocks to see what we can find. And ask dumb questions.

I hope Silvergirl doesn't mind me quoting her: "Oh, and Kepler > Lighten up."

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I understand.
Keep it Simple.
Don't Rock the Boat.
Children Are to Be Seen, Not Heard.
Do Not Question Established Doctrine....

Which is what Einstein didn't do.

Kepler discovered the Laws of Planetary Orbits by taking what had been rejected as "too simple" for at least 2,000 years and trying it again.

Newton shocked the world with "gravity".
But it is interesting to note that Newtonian gravity is instantaneous; it "travels" faster than the speed of light and affects everything within its field, which stretches out to infinity, instantlly. Relativistic gravity is a slowpoke.

I'm sorry, but this old man will continue to ask dumb questions. If a person accepts "science" as their religion, and conceives of the universe as a mechanistic clockwork, that is well and good. Such an outlook is full enough of wonders to last a lifetime. But some of us perceive something deeper, beyond the mechanism, and so we look under rocks to see what we can find. And ask dumb questions.

I hope Silvergirl doesn't mind me quoting her: "Oh, and Kepler > Lighten up."

I agree Greybeard. Who was it that said "The only questions that are stupid are the ones that are never asked."?

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I understand.
Keep it Simple.
Don't Rock the Boat.
Children Are to Be Seen, Not Heard.
Do Not Question Established Doctrine....

I never said this... As you explained, most of the best scientists have rocked the boat.

My point was that no matter how much science uncovers, you will probably always be able to ask a more fundamental "why" question.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I'm sorry, but this old man will continue to ask dumb questions. If a person accepts "science" as their religion, and conceives of the universe as a mechanistic clockwork, that is well and good. Such an outlook is full enough of wonders to last a lifetime. But some of us perceive something deeper, beyond the mechanism, and so we look under rocks to see what we can find. And ask dumb questions.

Are you assuming that I don't perceive something "deeper"? BTW, the clockwork universe is a somewhat outdated picture, especially since the development of quantum mechanics.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I hope Silvergirl doesn't mind me quoting her: "Oh, and Kepler > Lighten up."