Freedom - what does it entail?

Originally Posted by xxheatherxx

Freedom is scary to a lot of people. In business...the boss doesn't need a free spirited person on his team... Can a free spirited person be a team player without social manipulation? How many relationships can handle freedom? In the end does practising freedom exclude a person physically?

Ofcourse there is the freedom of the spirit...but only if it is kept hidden?

Good questions heatherxx.
True freedom is non identification with mind.
And this is everyone's greatest fear- to be free of that.
To be free of the known- to be free of man's master of the ages.

[sound]

Originally Posted by xxheatherxx

Thankyou for sharing the poems Sound...they inspire.

But my question is, what is it to be free in the world...the reality of freedom as people have described it.

Freedom is scary to a lot of people. In business...the boss doesn't need a free spirited person on his team... Can a free spirited person be a team player without social manipulation? How many relationships can handle freedom? In the end does practising freedom exclude a person physically?

Ofcourse there is the freedom of the spirit...but only if it is kept hidden?

Hi heather let me say it is great to see that you made it back to SF after the shift. We have not exchanged very much however I am an avid reader of your posts ... your sincerity strikes a chord with me :)
ty for acknowledging my poetry :)

Where you speak about being a 'free thinker/agent/pain in the proverbial, within the team ... oh my how close that is to my heart at this very time ... yes one pays the price and becomes a (perceived and none too popular) force to be reckoned with to a degree lol I knew there was another way of describing my approach to my work other than 'the one that always runs against the grain and always insists on being different' its not an easy venture and whats even more difficult is allowing oneself to be true to ones sense of truth which I verily aquaint with 'being' (in the groove) of that uninhibited metaphorical place of freedom lol

[sound]

For HD

The middle of the road is trying to find me
I'm standing in the middle of life with my plans behind me
Well I got a smile for everyone I meet
As long as you don't try dragging my bay
Or dropping the bomb on my street

Now come on baby
Get in the road
Oh come on now
In the middle of the road, yeah

In the middle of the road you see the darndest things
Like fat guys driving 'round in jeeps through the city
Wearing big diamond rings and silk suits
Past corrugated tin shacks full up with kids
Oh man I don't mean a hampstead nursery
When you own a big chunk of the bloody third world
The babies just come with the scenery

Oh come on baby
Get in the road
Oh come on now
In the middle of the road, yeah

One...two...three...four...

The middle of the road is no private cul-de-sac
I can't get from the cab to the curb
Without some little jerk on my back
Don't harass me, can't you tell
I'm going home, I'm tired as hell
I'm not the cat I used to be
I got a kid, I'm thirty-three

Baby, get in the road
Come on now
In the middle of the road
Yeah

~The Pretenders~

Greetings..

The freedom to which i refer is the freedom from self-imposed limitations.. freedom from the prison of the mind's confining structure, while understanding the mind is also what we are.. in 'stillness', the mind agrees to collapse the structure, to remove the veils of its illusions, and.. you have the freedom and clarity to see/experience yourself in all things, to see all things being One thing.. you have the freedom to accept what limitations you choose, to define your relationship with Life, with yourself..

Be well..

Originally Posted by sound

For HD

The middle of the road is trying to find me
I'm standing in the middle of life with my plans behind me
Well I got a smile for everyone I meet
As long as you don't try dragging my bay
Or dropping the bomb on my street

Now come on baby
Get in the road
Oh come on now
In the middle of the road, yeah

In the middle of the road you see the darndest things
Like fat guys driving 'round in jeeps through the city
Wearing big diamond rings and silk suits
Past corrugated tin shacks full up with kids
Oh man I don't mean a hampstead nursery
When you own a big chunk of the bloody third world
The babies just come with the scenery

Oh come on baby
Get in the road
Oh come on now
In the middle of the road, yeah

One...two...three...four...

The middle of the road is no private cul-de-sac
I can't get from the cab to the curb
Without some little jerk on my back
Don't harass me, can't you tell
I'm going home, I'm tired as hell
I'm not the cat I used to be
I got a kid, I'm thirty-three

Baby, get in the road
Come on now
In the middle of the road
Yeah

~The Pretenders~

This is one of my favorite songs! Fantastic! Thank-You!

Middle of the road. Oh yeah, still trying to find me.

Tzu- Greetings..
The freedom to which i refer is the freedom from self-imposed limitations.. freedom from the prison of the mind's confining structure

Yes

while understanding the mind is also what we are..

We are not the mind.

in 'stillness', the mind agrees to collapse the structure, to remove the veils of its illusions,

In stillness one goes beyond the mind- no thought, just awareness.

and.. you have the freedom and clarity to see/experience yourself in all things, to see all things being One thing..

And there is clarity, freedom, seeing the One Self in all things

you have the freedom to accept what limitations you choose, to define your relationship with Life, with yourself..

There is no You in stillness. There is no self in stillness.

Originally Posted by andrew g

You raise some interesting issues Heather.

I will only respond to this from my experience. As I have come to value and prioritize the kind of freedom that has been talked about here in this thread I have distanced myself to some degree from people and situations that have no tolerance for, and do not resonate with, this kind of freedom. This hasnt been a conscious decision to distance myself, it has happened organically and naturally. I dont consider myself to be hiding in other words. My immediate family share the same values as me, and right now, thats enough. In my opinion, many people on the planet are now beginning to do what needs to be done to transform their old codependent limiting relationships into a new inter-dependent, joyful and free way of relating. I sense that in the next couple of years I may well be have more contact again with my old friends and family, though this is just an intuitive guess and I may be wrong.

I can relate to much of this andrew. What I feel as a freedom because of its opposition to what I feel as restriction...is my independence because of its opposition to my dependence. Perhaps its not really freedom at all, but an ongoing lesson.

Good questions heatherxx.
True freedom is non identification with mind.
And this is everyone's greatest fear- to be free of that.
To be free of the known- to be free of man's master of the ages.

So is true freedom only experienced in a deeper meditative state? I understand that one can release the identification with aspects of the mind, such as associations to self, conditioning etc....but in waking life the mind continues to be used and the release is an ongoing process - a continuous flow of in and out, if you like, otherwise we would forget our names and where we live, as well as how to take care of ourselves physically. In a physical state, the fear of losing our mind completely is a means to survival.

However, to be free of the known in terms of our belief in perceptions is an amazing place to be. I have feared losing my mind, Ive feared finding the illusions...but Ive not feared not knowing.

Hi heather let me say it is great to see that you made it back to SF after the shift. We have not exchanged very much however I am an avid reader of your posts ... your sincerity strikes a chord with me :)
ty for acknowledging my poetry :)

Where you speak about being a 'free thinker/agent/pain in the proverbial, within the team ... oh my how close that is to my heart at this very time ... yes one pays the price and becomes a (perceived and none too popular) force to be reckoned with to a degree lol I knew there was another way of describing my approach to my work other than 'the one that always runs against the grain and always insists on being different' its not an easy venture and whats even more difficult is allowing oneself to be true to ones sense of truth which I verily aquaint with 'being' (in the groove) of that uninhibited metaphorical place of freedom lol

thankyou Sound

You speak my language...and yep, I resonate totally with what you are saying. Its not easy xx

Lisa Quote:
Good questions heatherxx.
True freedom is non identification with mind.
And this is everyone's greatest fear- to be free of that.
To be free of the known- to be free of man's master of the ages.

heatherxx
So is true freedom only experienced in a deeper meditative state?

No. Identification with the mind means we believe the mind to be who we are.
We believe the thoughts, emotions, and personal self to be who we are.
The mind has become our identity.

I understand that one can release the identification with aspects of the mind, such as associations to self, conditioning etc....

Right. This is it.

but in waking life the mind continues to be used and the release is an ongoing process - a continuous flow of in and out, if you like,

Waking Life is when one is not identifying with the mind.
And yes, what you wrote is fine. No problem with it. The mind is a brilliant tool if it is not identified with.

otherwise we would forget our names and where we live, as well as how to take care of ourselves physically. In a physical state, the fear of losing our mind completely is a means to survival.

Right, Not identifying with the mind does not mean it is not a useful and necessary tool.

However, to be free of the known in terms of our belief in perceptions is an amazing place to be.

Yes!

I have feared losing my mind, Ive feared finding the illusions...but Ive not feared not knowing.

Nice.

Originally Posted by Lisa

No. Identification with the mind means we believe the mind to be who we are.
We believe the thoughts, emotions, and personal self to be who we are.
The mind has become our identity.


Right. This is it.


Waking Life is when one is not identifying with the mind.
And yes, what you wrote is fine. No problem with it. The mind is a brilliant tool if it is not identified with.


Right, Not identifying with the mind does not mean it is not a useful and necessary tool.

Yes!


Nice.

Great...I get ya

Greetings..

We are not the mind.

Yes we are, and so very much more..

Be well..