4 Christian giants with no biblical support.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

From what I gather from people who are actually authentically in touch with the "Spirit Realm" and have evidence to back up their gifts is that majority of the claims from St. Paul and the disciples who wrote the New Testament a lot of their writings prove to be...

Bravo everyone who has replied. Trying your best to evolve the topic into a worthwhile conversation, very honorable. That said, read post #15 - I mean really observe and take in that response. Something to consider maybe before you type another dozen paragraphs.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Christmas - what a load of pagan deception;

https://realtruth.org/articles/169-ttooc.html

So a Christian farce. And now a pagan deception.

Deception implies intent. Are you saying we've been conned? By pagans? Or pagans and Christians? Is this is a conspiracy of some kind? For what purpose? At the very least, please explain what it is within yourself that compels you to make the leap from "celebration" to "deception." That's the real and meaningful dialogue.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Baile

So a Christian farce. And now a pagan deception.

Deception implies intent. Are you saying we've been conned? By pagans? Or pagans and Christians? Is this is a conspiracy of some kind? For what purpose? At the very least, please explain what it is within yourself that compels you to make the leap from "celebration" to "deception." That's the real and meaningful dialogue.

There are many believers like myself who no longer adhere to the traditional Christian teachings. Because we have spent time and researched them , which many Christians just don't take the time to do ; in example:

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm

http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html

http://oaks.nvg.org/ap3.html

https://realtruth.org/articles/111229-001.html

These are just a few examples of the leap from celebration to deception. And I understand that this is not for everyone; some must live in the past and have their belief system molded by historical philosophy and traditions without question;

I can no longer do as such. I leaped out of it. And I will explain why.

[Baile]

But mickiel... I still put up Christmas lights and give gifts, even though I think the religious understanding of baby Jesus son of God thing is silly nonsense. Why? Because people LOVE each other at Christmas. That's the good and the beautiful in it. And I would keep Christmas going all year if that's what it took to bring peace and to end wars.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Baile

But mickiel... I still put up Christmas lights and give gifts, even though I think the religious understanding of baby Jesus son of God thing is silly nonsense. Why? Because people LOVE each other at Christmas. That's the good and the beautiful in it. And I would keep Christmas going all year if that's what it took to bring peace and to end wars.

Okay that is " Your way", my way is different. You celebrate Christmas for emotional reasons and your belief that it generates love. I reject it for biblical reasons and consider the custom as vain. Notice Jeremiah 10:3-4," For the customs of the people are vain; they cut a tree out of the forest , fasten it with nails and use hammers and the axe ; they deck it with silver and gold. In verse 2 it says "Learn not the way of the heathen."

Its says its not a good or evil thing , its just a vain custom started by heathens. This is the origin of it. And it has grown into a big market in this world.

You have your motivations , I have mine. You express yours , and I hold the right to express mine.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Okay that is " Your way", my way is different. You celebrate Christmas for emotional reasons and your belief that it generates love. I reject it for biblical reasons and consider the custom as vain. Notice Jeremiah 10:3-4," For the customs of the people are vain;

So let me get this straight... you start a thread, railing on the Christian religion, and you defend your railing on the Christian religion by preaching your own version of Christian religion. In your words: I'm stunned. I cannot believe what I just read. I thought your problem was with religion. And Christianity.

Originally Posted by mickiel

You have your motivations , I have mine. You express yours , and I hold the right to express mine.

Man you need to lighten up. You're at war with life. You're going to make yourself sick that way.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Baile

So let me get this straight... you start a thread, railing on the Christian religion, and you defend your railing on the Christian religion by preaching your own version of Christian religion. In your words: I'm stunned. I cannot believe what I just read. I thought your problem was with religion. And Christianity. Man you need to lighten up. You're at war with life. You're going to make yourself sick that way.

I am not a Christian and my objections are not motivated by your perception of them being Christian motivated ; they are not. The bible is not a Christian book , its a book Christians believe in. I am not here to teach you anything, or convince others of anything : I am doing what all others here are doing ; posting my views. I already know that Christmas is not biblical , neither is Easter , nor is Tithing and nor is the Trinity teaching.

My challenge is not to change anyone's beliefs , the challenge was clear , to the bible believers , show me biblical support for these things.

I did not ask for emotional support of your precious holidays. I am not trying to take your candy away. I am explaining why I no longer eat the candy.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mickiel

Its stunning how believers can swallow things and have no scriptures to back them up.

This is why I thought you were railing against blindly-follow, never-question religious belief.

mickiel, do you not see that all religious belief - even if it's written in the Bible - is a form of blindly-follow, never-question religious belief? That's the very nature of religious belief, mickiel. You have to choose to believe it, and without any actual proof. Because the Bible is just words on a page, written by men.

I looked up your threads. I see now you're the fellow who started a thread years ago about you being able to prove God exists. But your proof, is no proof. You say that because the world exists, and because its existence is a kind of miracle, it is proof that God exists.

No mickiel. There is no proof in that. Just as there is no way to prove the Bible is the word of God. Everything you are mocking other Christians for - you call them believers who swallow things - is exactly what you do, is exactly how you go about deciding what's true and not true.

[mickiel]

Originally Posted by Baile

This is why I thought you were railing against blindly-follow, never-question religious belief.

mickiel, do you not see that all religious belief - even if it's written in the Bible - is a form of blindly-follow, never-question religious belief? That's the very nature of religious belief, mickiel. You have to choose to believe it, and without any actual proof. Because the Bible is just words on a page, written by men.

I looked up your threads. I see now you're the fellow who started a thread years ago about you being able to prove God exists. But your proof, is no proof. You say that because the world exists, and because its existence is a kind of miracle, it is proof that God exists.

No mickiel. There is no proof in that. Just as there is no way to prove the Bible is the word of God. Everything you are mocking other Christians for - you call them believers who swallow things - is exactly what you do, is exactly how you go about deciding what's true and not true.

I proved it to myself , that's all that matters to me.

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/ge...-real-113.html

[Baile]

Originally Posted by mickiel

I am not trying to take your candy away. I am explaining why I no longer eat the candy.

And I am not trying to force you to eat that candy. I'm having a conversation, that's all. You have a very negative take on everything you express. You mock these holidays. You mock Christians who celebrate them. When people offer thoughtful replies, you answer with snippity answers: Translation ; you have no biblical support. Not that it matters, still I find it rather sad mickiel. I know when I am speaking to someone who is just angry with life, and can't help but take it out on everyone around him. Good luck in your searching.