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  #261  
Old 29-05-2020, 04:47 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Your Family can easily answer these for you as I am not going around in circles.
I commend you for not proclaiming "FALSE NEWS" but ..................



Having said that, Maitreya is to return after Buddhism is no longer being 'believed' just like it was for all the preceding Buddhas.

All the other Buddhas before they became Buddhas resided in Tuṣita Heaven.

Today, in the West, these Buddhas and Tuṣita Heaven are considered fairy tales by many Buddhists.


I find it odd that Western Buddhists speak of 'other Worlds' but dismiss that the other Buddhas were in 'other Worlds' which makes perfect sense.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #262  
Old 29-05-2020, 04:49 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Your Family can easily answer these for you as I am not going around in circles.

It would have been interesting to see what your answer would have been for:


While in Tuṣita Heaven, how 'big' was Gautama Buddha's ego?

How 'big' is Maitreya's ego?
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #263  
Old 29-05-2020, 04:51 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Nicely said Molearner.



I would agree that clothes are a reference to ego attachments.

Being like children is referring to being in the present moment.

Children are focused and living in the moment when they play. No worries about the appearance, no worries about the past, and no worries about (those clean clothes in) the future. Just endless curiosity and play.

As usual, very inspiring comments.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #264  
Old 29-05-2020, 04:53 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molearner
BigJohn,

Thank you for sharing this. The words of Jesus are a call for the return to the Garden of Eden. To be naked before God is to present oneself without ego. 'Clothing' can be seen as the ego which is an attempt to hide ourselves from God. We remember that one must be like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. To trample on the clothes is to mingle them with the dust of the earth....and from dust to dust implies death. In essence we must attempt to put the ego to death. It is at this point that we reunite with God and that we can come into His presence. When we are in the presence of His love there is no fear.

I appreciate your comments.

Your presence always brings life to the discussions.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #265  
Old 29-05-2020, 05:05 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Buddha never taught about ' Dropping the Ego ' what he taught was through Wisdom a healthy flexible ego is established...



Verse 290 of theDhammapada:

If, by forsaking a limited ease,
he would see an abundance of ease,
the enlightened person
would forsake the limited ease
for the sake of the abundant.

This is a definition of how a healthy flexible ego functions.


Searching all directions
with one’s awareness,
one finds no one dearer
than oneself.
In the same way, others
are fiercely dear to themselves.
So one should not hurt others
if one loves oneself.

All Buddha's Teachings are based on what is Unskilfull and Skilfull and a healthy flexible ego or sense of self is beneficial...


This may help

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...esnotself.html


Actually, the Buddha's teachings contain all the elements of healthy ego functioning. Even the not-self teaching is treated by the Buddha as a type of healthy ego functioning.


' We can also see that these teachings on developing a healthy ego include some of the basic virtues of the Buddha — discernment, compassion, and purity: the discernment in anticipation, sublimation, and humor; the compassion in altruism; and the purity in suppression. In this way, these three qualities of the Buddha come from healthy ego functioning in the intelligent pursuit of happiness. Unlike some religious teachers, the Buddha doesn't encourage you to feel ashamed of your desire for happiness or to deny it. Instead, he shows you how to train that desire so that it leads to true happiness and develops noble qualities of heart and mind along the way. He shows you how your ego can become wise, compassionate, and pure.'



No mention of ' Dropping the Ego '.

You are talking about part of the path but not the end result.

Buddhism and being a Buddha is 100% about moving beyond the ego.

From the Lankavatara Sutra

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realize that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.
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  #266  
Old 29-05-2020, 05:11 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Here is a little more on the topic from the same Sutra.

The assertion of philosophical views concerning the elements that make up personality and its environing world that are non-existent, assume the existence of an ego, a being, a soul, a living being, a "nourisher", or a spirit. This is an example of philosophical views that are not true. It is this combination of discrimination of imaginary marks of individuality, grouping them and giving them a name and becoming attached to them as objects, by reason of habit-energy that has been accumulated since beginning-less time, that one builds up erroneous views whose only basis is false-imaginations. For this reason Bodhisattvas should avoid all discussions relating to assertions and negations whose only basis is words and logic.

.....

By becoming attached to what is seen of the mind itself, there is an activity awakened which is perpetuated by habit-energy that becomes manifest in the mind-system, from the activities of the mind-system there rises the notion of an ego-soul and its belongings; the discriminations, attachments, and notion of an ego-soul, rising simultaneously like the sun and its rays of light.

By the ego-less-ness of things is meant that the elements that make up the aggregates of personality and its objective world being characterized by the nature of Maya and destitute of anything that can be called self-substance are therefore un-born and have no self-nature. How can things be said to have an ego-soul? By the ego-less-ness of persons is meant is that in the aggregates that make up personality there is no ego-substance, nor anything that is like an ego-substance nor that belongs to it. The mind-system, which is the most characteristic mark of personality, originated in ignorance, discrimination, desire, and deed; and its activities are perpetuated by perceiving, grasping, and becoming attached to objects as if they were real. The memory of these discriminations, desires, attachments and deeds is stored in Universal Mind since beginning-less time, and is still being accumulated where it conditions the appearance of personality and its environment and brings about constant change and destruction from moment to moment. The manifestations are like a river, a seed, a lamp, a cloud, the wind; Universal mind in its voraciousness to store up everything, is like a monkey never at rest, like a fly ever in search of food and without partiality, like a fire that is never satisfied, like a water-lifting machine that goes on rolling. Universal mind as defiled by habit-energy is like a magician that causes phantom things and people to appear and move about. A thorough understanding of these things is necessary to an understanding of the ego-less-ness of persons.

http://www.buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm
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  #267  
Old 29-05-2020, 05:56 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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EXACTLY!

It is one of the main 'tenets' of Buddhism.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #268  
Old 29-05-2020, 06:10 PM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
You are talking about part of the path but not the end result.

Buddhism and being a Buddha is 100% about moving beyond the ego.

From the Lankavatara Sutra

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realize that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.



Moving beyond the ego is not the same as dropping it. As Buddha said many times to have a healthy and flexible ego and use it skilfully with wisdom. After enlightenment the ego is naturally realized for what it is, an illusion. It isn't dropped because it wasn't there anyway....
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  #269  
Old 29-05-2020, 07:25 PM
Molearner Molearner is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Moving beyond the ego is not the same as dropping it. As Buddha said many times to have a healthy and flexible ego and use it skilfully with wisdom. After enlightenment the ego is naturally realized for what it is, an illusion. It isn't dropped because it wasn't there anyway....

sky123,

This is not directed in a critical way but this illustrates the dilemma that spiritual enthusiasts often encounter. We often hear on these forums that one creates his own reality and Buddha extols the ego. Then all these things come to naught and you are informed that what you believed and what was recommended to you is nothing more than an illusion ? Perhaps it is a helpful deceit ?
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  #270  
Old 29-05-2020, 07:36 PM
Molearner Molearner is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

jonesboy,

Thanks....this was helpful. Especially speaking of the round of birth and death. I cannot pretend to speak knowledgably about Buddhism....my knowledge is mostly limited to Wikipedia.....and I give up when confronted with the multitude of Buddhist schools that they reference. Nevertheless I must believe that the ego must surely be a contributor to repetitive rounds of birth and death. In Christian terminology I view the call to be born again as a mandate for overcoming the ego. All of that said, I have said and believe that the ego represents a survival technique in this present and material world. I just cannot fathom that it has a place, function or use in the heavenly realm.
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