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  #1  
Old 30-04-2020, 01:10 AM
Questioner1981 Questioner1981 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
 
What I learned at 39 (Birthday May First)

Hi:

I'm new to this forum joined a while back but haven't checked in. I thought I'd reach out with what I've learned so far in life. I come from a perspective of mental illness, but now with the right medication and experience I'm stable. I don't advocate for any particular religion, but I do come from a Christian background. Regardless, I've read Journey of Souls, Messages from the Masters, and in college I took a Course in reading Mahayana Buddhist texts.

I just want to bond on here and learn what people are delving into. I grew up in a Liberal Catholic Background in California. So, from a young age I was raised with diversity and knew many Buddhists (Hinayana) and Muslims. So, I never had a narrow view of religion, nor was I taught nor do I believe that God only speaks to one group of people. But, but, but that is the point of this thread, I now understand why some people have that view. So, understanding now where they are coming from and seeing life as journey I recommend not committing my former mistakes and demonizing them or getting into arguments with them. Especially now, the world and America needs peace, love and tolerance and that is especially towards people you disagree with. We always preach this, but it's not until you are shocked by a view not your own do you become aware of how intolerant any person can be.


So, while I grew up with a Liberal Catholic background; it was one shared by Catholics of my region ie God is love, love thy neighbor, the Church is only one Church of many religions and God judges by deed and heart not by Church affiliation. Again, no mention of Hell was ever made. No advocacy for any political party was ever made. I wasn't given fire and brimstone speeches. It was only through my illness where I hallucinated the Devil and Hell Fire, did I begin to understand what Christians in America from narrower perspectives, with less worldly experience who are raised in Fire and Brimstone households goes through. Again, the whole Devil thing was part of my illness. So, don't assume I was targeted by the Devil.

What happened after that experience, is I began to look for answers among Catholic and Christians. And the answer were fear based. Now that is cliche, everyone says that a lot of Christianity is fear based but again I was not raised with such Christianity. So, that my Christianity could all of a sudden be based on fear due to a hallucination was new to me. So, to elaborate let me share with you the process.

One, you are afraid of Hell and part of that fear is an ever present awareness that you are afraid of the world and for the world. Again, Christians and Catholics of this vein will often say they are not of this world. Well, based on the fear of Hell and a desire for perfection to escape from Hell you begin to develop a "you vs. them," mentality. The Christian is the minority in the world, living up to the tenets of Christianity is a minority path, so anyone not living according to the tenets is someone to fear. Then in your mind, even for Catholics of this vein, emerges an elect. A special group of people you can trust, who follow the same path you do, and who will go to Heaven. Well, this group is very small as you feel most are damned. Again, this is all fear driven. But if you can imagine, belonging part of a special group the world and the media doesn't accept allays the fears because you are living right by God and of course others are choosing the Devil.

Then what happens is your world becomes narrower. Can't listen, to Rock, Hip-Hop, Blues, Jazz, Pop because again the themes are always contrary to God and Society. The History of music, even going back to classical, has always been to speak out of the injustices of the world and the way these musicians lived was very hedonistic. So, as a Christian trying to go the right path you can't listen to their music because more than likely they weren't Christian and more than likely by how they live they were condemned. I mention music, because music means a lot to me and I found I had to, like other Christians, renounce music not out of fear of the Devil but out of fear of being a Hypocrite. I can't be one of the elect follow a Godly life, and condone such music when these people were not going to join me in Heaven.

Again, this then goes for all media. Now, here is the kicker. I didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary. I instead voted "Other:none" and voted in State and Local Elections. This time around depending on Biden's platform, I might do the same. But here is a kicker, why would a Christian vote for Trump who is a sinner and not at all a role model of any Christian belief. Again, Christians aren't stupid, they can see Trump for what he is. But then, why vote for him? There are a couple of reasons. First, he and the Republican Party are Pro-life and this becomes the primary evil and issue you live under. Not, the Economy, not the Environment, not International Relations but your duty, at the thread of condemnation and criticism by that same elect group, is to vote no matter what for a pro-life candidate.

As an example of this I remember calling into a Priest on a Catholic show, and asking, "Can I abstain from voting even if the Candidate is Pro-life but even you and it seems the Pope disagree with his immigration and environmental views." The Priest very quickly replied, I have to vote and I have to vote Pro-life because unless there is someone there to defend his Pro-life stance the world will go down the slippery slope of Eugenics (determining who lives) and Euthanasia (determining who dies and when to die). As for the immigration issues and environmental issues, those aren't primary Church teachings so there is leeway in that but to be a good Catholic I not only have to be Pro-life, which I am, but always vote Pro-life.

So, again, you found your elect. Your respite from a dangerous world where most are condemned. You want to fit in. You don't want to be kicked out by the elect. So, of course, if the elect tell you to vote for a candidate in spite of other major concerns, which you see and others see, then you have to vote for that candidate. Again, that elect are the only people who understand you and see the world for the most part the way you do. But at the heart of those belonging to the elect is the fear of being kicked out. So, at first this starts with fear of Hell, then Society, then it becomes fear of being excommunicated from the elect.

I'll write more later. But please, be tolerant and loving towards these people. They are not as Hillary said, "deplorables." They are loving Americans and families, and potentially ethnocentric to racist, but this all they have to go through. Again, never assume as behavioral Economist, Financiers, Marketers, Psychologists that people are stupid or irrational. No, different people live under a different rationale, which makes logical sense were the premises do. If you are elitist and view these people as deplorables or ignorant or stupid or irrational, then you too will make the same mistake as they do and feel like you belong to an elect. Once again, it may not lead to the fear of Hell, but once you assume you are part of a special group it's always, "do as we say or you are no longer understood or special," and out. Again, Atheists have their elect.
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  #2  
Old 30-04-2020, 04:27 PM
Questioner1981 Questioner1981 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
 
So, I'll continue with what I've learned so far, one day before my birthday. Again, I don't know how active this forum is but feel free to chime in with your experience, whether you share my sentiments, want to modify it or what have you. I hope people do chime in, I know fifty people have read the post.

But again, that period of fear I describe caused by a hallucination only lasted approximately six months before I realized I was going down a rabbit hole. Again, while I do come from a Catholic Background I have read books like the Lotus Sutra, the Dhammapada, the Upanishads, the Gita, the Quran along with other esoteric works. Again, I grew up with Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims so I could have the perspective to escape my fear. Again, I also read a lot of philosophy and many of the Western Classics. So, I had perspective. My best advice is to always read, but be an active reader; always question and argue with the author especially when it comes to matters of philosophy. Never read about a book on a wiki page, or spark notes, or even from an academic article. Instead, read the original work and form your own opinion, knowing the author was meant to be read by everyone.

Again, right now is the time for tolerance and to really question yourself regarding the extent of tolerance you have. Better than tolerance is love, but love starts with tolerance. And tolerance starts with putting yourself in someone's shoes. Again, tolerance starts with accepting the fundamental principle that while some may possess gifts and talents, no one is stupid or irrational. And whatever gifts or talents someone possesses doesn't necessarily translate into wisdom. While talents might be exclusive, wisdom is available to all. Then with tolerance and wisdom comes love.

Typically tolerance will come in the form of, "I accept so and so people, therefore I am tolerant." However, tolerance is limited when you say, "I can't tolerate people who don't accept so and so people as well." OK, that becomes a problem because that lack of tolerance or even disgust with others who may not have the benefit of sharing your perspective leads to a dogma, which then leads to a fear and hatred of other. Again, I follow the premise that while there is Evil (Serial Killers, Nazi's) the majority of people who are narrow in their views are so because of ignorance which leads to fear.

While it isn't your job or even your right to correct them, I always feel that ignorance is forgivable even when it leads to bad intent. I have already described how the Christian dynamic can lead to fear under certain doctrines and that fear is intolerable. So, now at 38 going on 39 I have come to understand the ignorant suffer more for their ignorance then even the object of their ignorance. Again, we are not talking about Nazis here who followed a premise of Evil developing in late nineteenth century thought, but the average person who is not exposed to a world greater then their local region.

So, again, many people (including myself in the past) have seen themselves as edgy counter-culture going against the grain of conformity, living by premises for the common good and being virtuous independence. OK, I made that mistake when I was younger. I tell you Trump Supporters are counter culture, they are a revolutionary movement. If you want to challenge yourself listen to Rush Limbaugh. Ironically, in the nineties he was the voice of the White Collar Worker, the middle class, and upper middle class. Having listened to him recently, I've come to understand the allure of a Limbaugh or a Hannity or any Pundit. All of them are counter-culture and all claim to represent the views of the marginalized downtrodden, the working class. Again, they are revolutionary and counter-culture in that they will buck the system of established views and stand for the rights of those who find themselves oppressed by their views.

Again, this goes for any Pundit including the Left's Pundits like Rachel Maddow. Again, it's always this appeal to people who are fighting for their views. And yes, Limbaugh and Maddow, will stand with you and profess your views and tell you, you are the one being persecuted or treated with injustice and they are your advocate. Well, I hope I don't sound cynical but that is all salesmanship and marketing. Neither Maddow, nor Limbaugh, nor any pundit on any channel talking to you (but really not talking you, this is broadcasting to entire groups of people but it does feel like they know you and are relating to you but that is salesmanship) are accountable for your day to day living including hardships, your job situation, your mental health, your quality of life, or your well being in any which way. Looking at what they do, knowing they make millions doing what they do, their job is not to inform you or to help you, but to make ratings, hence advertising, hence profit. But, again, many fall for it because I goes back to my previous post: we all want to part of the elect, we all want to feel as if we are the ones who are being misunderstood, we want to feel that whoever out there sees thing differently is the Other or the Evil group. Again, this applies to Atheists as well.

So as Religious or Spiritual people who strive for better understanding, we have to resist the fear of intolerance even when we think we are tolerant. Again, for those who don't understand how Trump can get elected or may not understand a Trump supporter. Well, Trump is a revolutionary movement. Again, I don't support his movement but I'm not a stake holder. I was very comfortable all my life before Trump, with the exception of my illness. But to understand a Trump Supporter, imagine after Bush's SR NAFTA, manufacturing and energy jobs generations of your family relied on are no longer present. Imagine living in a world you no longer understand, where the media is dictated by wealthy coastal regions and their personal concerns and your Southern or Midwestern State is overlooked as a fly by State. Again, Hollywood where most shows are shot is in California and always has been in California. So, when music, tv, movies no longer relate to your own localized culture, because again the shows are made in wealthy Blue States that are Cosmopolitan and known for their diversity; you begin to feel out of place in the world. Or looking from a more compassionate perspective, you a White Male from a Red State are marginalized now. Again, it seems unheard of that any White Male could be Marginalized, but that is the purview of the media which is only looking at the nation from the perspective of either California or Manhattan where most of this production is shot.

But again, looking at it from the perspective of these places with very low minimum wages, no manufacturing jobs, a dwindling energy sector, a very localized culture that is not discussed and is almost taboo; you feel marginalized. Again, the Right will talk about a Nanny State or the Left as being Authoritarian. All that means, is that whatever standard the wealthier States live by, which most in those States cherish and are meant to ease social interaction, are intolerable for people who don't share the same experience.

So, then why Trump? He is the first person to address the issue in 2016. Again, people aren't stupid. They may be well aware of his limitations and that he may not be the best to formulate a plan to solve their real world problems. But unlike previous Democrats and Republicans, he addressed the issue. He put a name and a face on the issue and said, "I understand and will solve it." Again, no one is stupid his plans may have been tenuous but when you are marginalized and your voice has been suppressed for so long, you will take anyone who seems like they care.

I'll write more later on. I hope people chime in.
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  #3  
Old 30-04-2020, 04:31 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
This seems much more political than spiritual.
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  #4  
Old 30-04-2020, 05:22 PM
MAYA EL
Posts: n/a
 
I am enjoying your world commentary.
And are birth days are very close by the way!
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  #5  
Old 30-04-2020, 05:29 PM
Questioner1981 Questioner1981 is offline
Newbie ;)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
This seems much more political than spiritual.

Sorry about, that let me clarify. The point I'm making is as spiritual people who are confronted with a new idea or new movement or view point we can't possibly understand, we can't make the mistake of demonizing others. Again, that is why I bring up Trump, because Trump and the Trump Supporter is the dilemma of our time. Again, the fact that Hillary could call a big swath of Americans, "deplorable." Shows how out of touch with the sentiments of a big swath of the country we were. Again, whether we like it or not for us Gen Z or Millenial (I fall on the border of the two) this, this time period is the Spiritual Test of our time. As I believe Thomas Paine wrote, "This is the time that tries men's souls." Again, much in the same way previous period may have been troubled by Communism or Nazis. This issue, for many, is a test of the soul. It's our generations test.

So, this is indeed a Spiritual matter and if processed correctly goes back to my original post, this is a time not to lecture, not to correct, but a time to really test your level of tolerance and compassion. Again, I see love as the center of most religious and spiritual callings. The point of the second post is to provide a current example, where as Job, we are put to the test. It is easy to exude enlightened ideals of love and compassion in isolation or in theory but to exude it as an every day practice is tough. Especially now, in the internet age. So, the point I was making by pointing out Trump, Limbaugh, Maddow is that as Spiritual People or anyone desiring enlightenment we must understand everyone, and regard everyone with love and compassion even if we disagree with them.

Again, the point being is that Evil is rare, ignorance is common not only in others but ourselves.

Again, I'll mention another issue which I view in the purview of Spirituality. Now, we are in recession but it's a unique recession due to a virus called Covid 19. OK, I'm not a psychic or medium or contain any special gift, but I knew something like this was going to happen. Again, for a period of time I knew that in some way, something would have to happen, something dramatic to shake people out of their spiritual, apathetic malaise. Again, from a religious view point, God needed to show himself and intervene. So, believing in all actions have a cause (as Philosopher Hegel did) disruption in our lives and the impending recession are the Universe's way of saying, "you can't keep going on escaping from higher callings, you can't keep avoiding uncomfortable issues, now you too will be put to the test."

As one cartoonist put it, "Due to Covid we have all been sent to our bedroom to contemplate what we have done." Well, again looking at this religiously and spiritually Gen Z and Millenials have not been put to the test. There is no dramatic moment of uncertainty and disruption that we grew up with. Well, no generation is above hardship no matter how advanced or evolved we believe ourselves to be. This most recent incident of Covid and the impending recession are examples that we too are subject to the human condition.

So, again, I'm relating current events with my sense of religion and spirituality. I know a hundred percent there is a God, and I pray for Universal Salvation or at least minimum loss. But in discussing religion and spirituality, you can't alienate the period from the spiritual condition. I understand what I wrote may make you feel uncomfortable. Sorry, I did not intend that. But it is spiritual. But again we Milenials and Gen z are known for our escapism. Nope. No escaping our generation. From a growth perspective we are right now at a road block that isn't going away. As Spiritual and religious people we must challenge ourselves with the most empathy, understanding, wisdom to both help others and ourselves. That's why I went into the whole explanation, so people could have understanding.
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  #6  
Old 30-04-2020, 05:36 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questioner1981
Sorry about, that let me clarify. The point I'm making is as spiritual people who are confronted with a new idea or new movement or view point we can't possibly understand, we can't make the mistake of demonizing others. Again, that is why I bring up Trump, because Trump and the Trump Supporter is the dilemma of our time. Again, the fact that Hillary could call a big swath of Americans, "deplorable." Shows how out of touch with the sentiments of a big swath of the country we were. Again, whether we like it or not for us Gen Z or Millenial (I fall on the border of the two) this, this time period is the Spiritual Test of our time. As I believe Thomas Paine wrote, "This is the time that tries men's souls." Again, much in the same way previous period may have been troubled by Communism or Nazis. This issue, for many, is a test of the soul. It's our generations test.

So, this is indeed a Spiritual matter and if processed correctly goes back to my original post, this is a time not to lecture, not to correct, but a time to really test your level of tolerance and compassion. Again, I see love as the center of most religious and spiritual callings. The point of the second post is to provide a current example, where as Job, we are put to the test. It is easy to exude enlightened ideals of love and compassion in isolation or in theory but to exude it as an every day practice is tough. Especially now, in the internet age. So, the point I was making by pointing out Trump, Limbaugh, Maddow is that as Spiritual People or anyone desiring enlightenment we must understand everyone, and regard everyone with love and compassion even if we disagree with them.

Again, the point being is that Evil is rare, ignorance is common not only in others but ourselves.

Again, I'll mention another issue which I view in the purview of Spirituality. Now, we are in recession but it's a unique recession due to a virus called Covid 19. OK, I'm not a psychic or medium or contain any special gift, but I knew something like this was going to happen. Again, for a period of time I knew that in some way, something would have to happen, something dramatic to shake people out of their spiritual, apathetic malaise. Again, from a religious view point, God needed to show himself and intervene. So, believing in all actions have a cause (as Philosopher Hegel did) disruption in our lives and the impending recession are the Universe's way of saying, "you can't keep going on escaping from higher callings, you can't keep avoiding uncomfortable issues, now you too will be put to the test."

As one cartoonist put it, "Due to Covid we have all been sent to our bedroom to contemplate what we have done." Well, again looking at this religiously and spiritually Gen Z and Millenials have not been put to the test. There is no dramatic moment of uncertainty and disruption that we grew up with. Well, no generation is above hardship no matter how advanced or evolved we believe ourselves to be. This most recent incident of Covid and the impending recession are examples that we too are subject to the human condition.

So, again, I'm relating current events with my sense of religion and spirituality. I know a hundred percent there is a God, and I pray for Universal Salvation or at least minimum loss. But in discussing religion and spirituality, you can't alienate the period from the spiritual condition. I understand what I wrote may make you feel uncomfortable. Sorry, I did not intend that. But it is spiritual. But again we Milenials and Gen z are known for our escapism. Nope. No escaping our generation. From a growth perspective we are right now at a road block that isn't going away. As Spiritual and religious people we must challenge ourselves with the most empathy, understanding, wisdom to both help others and ourselves. That's why I went into the whole explanation, so people could have understanding.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And to quote Jordan Peterson "Clean your room.". LOL!

But he's so right. Work on yourself and loose the ripples on the pond. All the important change is personal. If one can't change one's self and lead by example one shouldn't expect society to change to one's liking.

EDIT: Another way to look at it is change the only person you can change.
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  #7  
Old 30-04-2020, 08:57 PM
Questioner1981 Questioner1981 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. This will probably be my last thought. Now, after all that I have gone through and looking back at my life, which I see as a journey of growth, I know a hundred percent there is a God. However, I don't know two things: 1) the question of salvation 2) whether we will get an answer, or a new answer in my lifetime.

Again, all the ingredients are there for dramatic change, a change that is occurring right now. Spiritualist I have heard on the radio now say things to the extent, "we never said the Aquarian age would start out comfortable." OK, I agree with that. I do believe at some point there will be a clarity point. I'm not certain what that will look like or whether that will happen in my lifetime.

I just assume we will do nothing about Climate Change, and then in eighty or hundred years, when Climate Scientist Predict a catastrophic change will occur, the remaining group of people will live by some accord or guidance. In a sense, Climate Change will be humanities second flood moment. And from there a new point of clarity will come in. Whoever survives will live in a New Era.

Again, looking at history there have been moments of religiosity and there have been moments of secularism. We do have new thoughts emerging in the Spiritualist community and more people are exploring new ways to look at the world. But what there isn't is a full scale movement guided by revelation. What I mean by that, is there are no particular teachers or flash points in society to reignite a desire for religion and spirituality.

Again, Gen Z and Millenial having grown up with the tech growth overshoot in their estimations of science and the extent science can address problems of the human condition. Yes, we now have computers and internet but because we have new tools doesn't mean we don't have the need for traditional thoughts or schools of thought that address the human condition. It's a false dichotomy and throwing the baby out with the bathwater: I have a new tool, now everything else is obsolete. No, you have a new tool but don't expect an equivalent tool to come out in the near future until that new tool comes out, we once again are still subject to the human condition that goes back to the ancient people. The Wheel did not replace God and the Soul, or the yearning to understand matters of religiosity and spirituality. So, don't believe we are any more or less enlightened because of this new tool.

Finally, while I hope in reincarnation, I still stick to the Bible and Christian Principles in my Catholicism. But again, I know how to read the book. In summary, the Old Testament is in regards to the descendants of Isaac the house of Judah and their travails to understand God, never having been presented with the concept before during a time of secularism and false belief. The figures in the work are not meant as role models and are often chastised for their flaws. The allure of the Old Testament are the people who surround the major figures, the common people. And once again, the book has many parts but if read correctly shows a Spiritual Evolution where man and woman in spite of their flaws can reach a point of salvation. It's not meant to be a fairy tale or a drama, there are sad outcomes and there are positive outcomes. But again like all history, it is never simple and rarely filled with flawless heroes.

But again, that is all I will write. Again, in my belief of things there is room for all Holy Books. All of us religious people just share a planet together. The descendants of Isaac, and Ishmael, and the Gentiles in three different books, Old Testament, Quran and New Testament relative to the needs of the people along with the Dharmic religions, shedding light on our journey towards a better world. And as Hegel wrote, without conflict there is no change. Oh, did we live a peaceful time where we grew lazy. The future may not be so peaceful. Only love, compassion and understanding will keep a person sane and happy and prosperous.
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