Consideration of Perfection

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

When you start asking about those dying of cancer etc etc, where do you draw the line?

How far does something have to be from your idea of perfection for it to be considered imperfect?

Everything is what it is, and it will pass.

Underlying all of it is perfection.

Peace

As a person lies on their death bed, is the only condolence you can provide, is "You are perfect"?

Have you watched a terminally ill person die?

Have you participated in the 'ritual' of giving the person more morphine?


.......... and do you say to that person "You are perfect!"

[BigJohn]

Have you ever watch a person who is in the hospital and screams
"Kill me!"

or

"Why me?"

but then........

Why take the person to the hospital....... the person is perfect.


Besides, why would a perfect person ever go to the hospital and/or see a doctor?

[CosmicValet]

All things pass. There is Pain and Pleasure, Sorrow and Joy, Death and Life--accept.

Namaste

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by CosmicValet

All things pass. There is Pain and Pleasure, Sorrow and Joy, Death and Life--accept.

Namaste

There are also curable diseases.



Why suffer as a perfect person
when you can be cured as an imperfect person?

[CosmicValet]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

There are also curable diseases.



Why suffer as a perfect person
when you can be cured as an imperfect person?

That is good. To help others is a blessing. The body is a vehicle for experiencing life. It is said that Buddha died of food poisoning at 80 years of age, yet his legacy still lives, as does that of Christ. Both were/are far greater than their bodies, as are you.

Namaste

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by CosmicValet

Have you ever considered that you are already perfect? This from a discussion regarding the notion that imperfection is perfection.

Namaste

This arises out of morning prayer which is best described here https://www.templepurohit.com/mantra...ah-purnamidam/ whereby seeker says I am complete/perfect/infinite and you(Universe) too is complete /perfect/infinite .

Now this is true so that our psychological journey never start with despair / despondency / deficiency which often blurs are vision/activity. But to mean that there is no need for development and be complacent with it is utterly wrong . Though I am complete/perfect , there is infinite scope for my becoming more perfect/complete . Still we are small miniscule complete/perfect particle of the entire universe.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Perfection implies no development and no need, doesn't it?

Perfection implies anything you want it to imply, it's in the eyes of the beholder.

[meetjazz]

Personally, I ''attribute myself'' to idealism, general the idealistic philosophy is known as Platonism. Plato is considered to be the father of idealism. Of course, idealists have a lot to say on the subject of perfection. Perfection in any sense; in beauty, goodness, justice,... is unattainable to reach to man from the point of view of idealists. At best we can only experience ''Perfection''which is understood as merging with the ONE, LOGOS. To understand the position of idealist, we must first understand their view of why we are here in the first place at all. I will write this in words of Plotinus himself and the words of Pauliina Remes as she had described the Platonic views easy to understand:
...
If the deepest nature of humanity extends to the unchanging and divine levels of being, into the immediate vicinity of the One, why are we nonetheless embodied, and spend most of our time in less than intellectual activities, far from wisdom as well as perfection of goodness and happiness? Why is human existence marked by vice and imperfection? For the Neoplatonists, this question is translated into the question of why embodied human beings were generated in the fi rst place: that is, why eternal or timeless intellectual souls “separated” themselves from the Intellect and acquired individuality and bodily as well as temporal existence:

What is it, then, which has made the souls forget their father, god, and even though they are parts from this higher realm and altogether belong to him, be ignorant both of themselves and of him? The origin was audacity (tolma) and birth and the first difference and the wish to belong to themselves. Since they appeared to take pleasure in selfdetermination (to autexousion), and to make much use of self-movement, running the opposite way and making the distance as great as possible, they were ignorant even that they were from that realm. (Plotinus, Enn. V.1.1.1–9)

The generation myth or story weaves human imperfection together with individuation. As a part of the Intellect, each of us would have no true individual existence. The human striving towards individual existence, towards being oneself, separates the souls from the original “togetherness” within the Intellect. Becoming a human being with a personality, individual characteristics and body, as well as a place and task in the universe, unrelentingly ties us to the realm below perfection. Thus belonging to something high and perfect, without any individualizing characteristics, is contrasted with being an individual with one’s particular existence and personal features. Personality and individuality are understood as essential to our nature, yet connected with imperfection. The same move that makes us what we are, embodied individuals, creates problems for the human claim to truth, perfect goodness and paradigmatic unity. Our innate desire for and pursuit of things such as unity, beauty, truth and goodness are explainable by the idea that everything aspires and reverts to its source. The soul that has become individual realizes its own separation from the intelligible and yearns back to it. Therefore it, like the hypostases, returns back and strives to rise back towards its source, the Logos.
..
The myth of the descent of the soul is known in many Western religions, western mysticism...I must also mention here that almost all western mysticism, as well as religions did take a lot from Platonism and built on their religious doctrines, spiritual practices,...although even eastern religions...have many myths about ''the descent of the soul,'' or whatever name is used for the ''soul.'' I must mention here that view of Platonism is, that souls do not descend completely but some part of it is always united with the ONE, LOGOS...we humans call this part ''The Higher Self'' that guide within us, which can guide us through this world if we want. So our task from the point of view of Idealist is on Earth to become the best version of us, and then to move to higher levels of existence, or, in the best case,to become ONE with the ONE already in our time as human beings. For example we can also we feel or perceive greater harmony throughout nature through contemplation, contemplation is for Platonist one of the key ways, it's a basiclly a must to acquire knowledge. When we have feelings or insights that everything is in perfect order...although I can write an entire encyclopedia now, as this is already related to the next doctrine of Platonist..the top down structures of existence.

[meetjazz]

....I clicked twice to post..double post so pls delete this one

[meetjazz]

....I clicked twice to post..double post so pls delete this one also.