How would you feel?

[astralsuzy]

My brother will be having a 70th birthday party in November. My other brother is invited but we are not invited. I got an invitation from my sister in law in an email. The heading said my brothers name and 70th birthday. I thought we were being invited to his birthday but instead she invited us to a club for lunch a couple of weeks after my brothers 70th birthday. The email said it is to celebrate the families birthdays. My childrens birthdays are in December. My sister in law knows I am coeliac and I am not able to eat the food. Eating tiny amounts of gluten can damage my intestine and do other things. The club has gluten free meals but it is very likely to be contaminated with gluten. My husband and son are not going to go to the club. I am not sure about my daughter and partner.

Would you feel upset, annoyed, disappointed or perhaps you would feel it is a good thing you were not invited? At least you know that they do not think much of you.

I sure do understand why that sister in law is getting to your nerves, she sure gets to mine and I don't even know her, LOL. This sort of thing is sadly to be expected when dealing with someone like that, from what you have described before.

Lots of things I reacted on here. One is the thought if your brother knows how all this will be arranged for or if it will be a surprise/s to him. If a surprise maybe he would not chose to have it this way.

The other is that it is not up to your sister in law to decide how to celebrate your children's birthdays, It is your children's choices if and how to be celebrated, nobody else's. She shouldn't assume or decide. That is crossing a boundary.

I personally have not heard about these sort of differences in celebrating a birthday. The only thing I have heard of is that the closest family members that is the parents and the children and the children's partners celebrate on that day, and then on another date arranging for the rest. In doing so your other brother and his family should then, equally to yours, be invited those weeks later. That I would think would be fair, that order.

About the gluten part I do not know if your brother or sister in law knows too much about it sometimes it can be pure ignorance and not on intent, but if they already know enough about it then yes I think it is a strange move to make indeed.

If I were in your shoes I would simply in a neutral way turn down the invitation.

I would send my brother on his 70th birthday a gift such as bouquet of flowers with a birthday note or something else. Then it would be up to him, and not something that goes through your sister in law, to give you a call or contact you another way to say thanks. He has a responsibility as an adult, as your brother, to be in charge of his own contacts or not to maintain his relationships with his first family. That is what I think. If he gets the flowers or another present from you or you guys, then he himself would thank you I hope, and not leave that up to the sister in law as well? But who knows, maybe she takes over that operation as well considering?

Just be happy you now can do equally what was done to you as they have laid down the law and be happy for the distance between yourself and that sister in law. That is what I am at least after what I've been through.

If she is up to what I think she is it is something called triangulation, a word in the narc's look up book, a word I was taught by Izz, a member on this forum, who knows too sadly about narcissism, and something I have myself been exposed to. I did not even know there was a word for it before, and if you read up about it you might recognize some things. There is information about triangulation and even youtube videos of those who has been exposed to it by narcissists.

When it happened to me, the triangulation part, I was upset, hurt, etc - but then it turned to anger and justice thinking. Do to them what they've done to you, they can not say it is unfair. Today I feel more free and strong this way and do not feel any kind of obligation to deal with someone like that, it's not my responsibility.

but your brother has to solve his own situation. As long as he does not he gets to pay for it - and you get to pay for it, unless you say no more. Just because he has crawled all together on the floor and you stand up don't mean you h ave to take your sister in law's **** for it. Move a little to the side and she will try to throw it on someone else. All this because he can not stand up, take it, and deal with it himself. She is his problem. She shouldn't be yours.

/edited above, writing too much, you know ;)

[astralsuzy]

Thanks asearcher, I am sure my brother is not having a surprise party. If my brother wanted me there he would have invited us. It sounds like they were trying to make themselves feel good about inviting us at the club so they would not have to invite us to my brothers 70th birthday. We are not going to the club. We made up our mind straight away. I am not sure about my daughter and partner if they are going.

I never thought of it like that. It is not up to my sister in law to decide how my childrens birthdays should be celebrated. My sister in law will only have her family to celebrate their childrens birthdays. I have not talked to my family about this as they do not want to talk about it. It only makes you feel not happy. That is what my husband says and I know he is right. I will get passed this.


My sister in law has complained to me as I did not want to eat the club food about a year ago. Her daughter is coeliac and her other daughter is gluten intolerant. I said the doctors says to me not to eat the food and my sister in law does not care about it. She said her girls eat the food and she walked away. She has said that other times when I was at the club.


I will look up that word triangulation.

That is just awful and so messed up. They are both doing this fully on purpose and pretending or are that stupid.

Of course a normal person would take in consideration any type of food restrictions there may be. For her to act that way is her effort to question, and to stupefy you, when she's the stupid one (and rude one!).

I think you and your husband act most accurately by not going to that 70's thing at that club.

I know we too have always kept the children (but in our case it is just children but they can still hear and see and have their own experiences) away from our conflicts with the narcissist on my husband's side of the family, they don't need to know. Maybe one day when older they have figured it out, but now it is not important. What is important is for them to keep on having the good relationships they do have with the others in the families, their aunts and uncles and their cousins, and we got along just fine and wish to continue this way. We now do so without the eyes, and ears of the narcissist. The aunts and uncles have stood up for me in my or our absence and other families as well as they know me or of us and could not stand listening to the sick fabrication of lies the narcissist was trying to tell them (does not live in this reality, that is for sure). Once they have seen the other face of the narc and the repetitive mannerism, the dramas, the "excuses" and no change in behavior - people withdraw or cut off contact.

I thought when me and my husband split, on my initiative, they would side with him but they tried and did reach out.

I feel now after all I have been through that it is as if all these other family members and us who has become part of the family later on in life has all grown from this hell of having a narcissist in the family. The original, first family members were so use to it they were blind and had adapted, all but one who must have felt so alone in all this before, that it had to take the rest of us and other families/people to point out how wrong this all was. The family has a long string back in history of cut off relations and because of that end up isolated now and then til they find a new family that the narc then gets to fool for a while to then bad things happening and then that family has withdrawn or cut off contact too.

My husband's childhood memories are full of the narc fighting, and huge dramas, over matters that should never have gotten to be anything to fight about in the first place. He learned as a way to survive to shut this off and adapt. This why I could barely recognize him when the narc was around as he was one man then, and another very different "alive" with me, us. I would ask him if something was the matter but he said nothing was. He was blind to it himself. One time I had to ask him "Who are you?" because the change was so radical and "Where did you go?". It made it only more chilling for me to be around the narc when feeling as if my own husband had checked out and a stranger was in his place.

I think any normal human being could/can tell what your sister in law and your brother is up to is not normal and you don't deserve it.

I'm guessing your adult children have other relations within the family/families they wish to still have and this sister in law and her husband is of no interest, and not let them ruin.

Yes, I believe too you will get pass this.

Hugs

[FairyCrystal]

Why would that mean they don't think much of you?
We all have our problems & issues, you can't expect other people to think of that all the time. I have trouble sitting in a chair without arm rests. I can't expect family to think of this as they likely have their own things to be busy with in life, possibly ailments too.
It is my concern, not theirs. The world doesn't evolve around you, not even if an issue is important to you.

As for them not inviting you to their home... these days more people decide to not have many people over. Certainly as they get a bit older as it's too much work, too busy, too whatever.
A personal choice and everyone is free to make that choice. Maybe they're closer with your one brother so they did invite him over.
Why feel left out?
I see a lot of jumping to conclusions in your post and filling in why others do something and how they feel & think. But in fact, you don't know at all. That's the trouble with jumping to conclusions.

Maybe you could call the restaurant to explain how sensitive you are and to find out just how careful they are with gluten free.
And otherwise think of your own solutions. Maybe you can bring something to eat yourself. That way you can still enjoy the celebrations, see family, and eat without getting ill.
Like I have to sort the chair problem myself, you can sort the food issue yourself. With ailments like that you have to become creative and inventive. You cannot expect the whole world to accommodate you and think of your issues 24/7.
If that were the case, we would have to think of everyone else's issues as well, 24/7.
Life doesn't work that way. It would take too much of our time to do that, I got other things to busy myself with than everyone else's issues.

I'd just email the sister in law and tell her that you're working on sorting the food situation as you can't eat there.
Won't hurt to show some initiative and show that you care about spending time with your family as opposed to making things difficult for everyone and basically feeling sorry for yourself.
Find solutions. That sure will help to enjoy life more.
Like I one day hope to find a light-weight foldable chair with armrests that I can sit on very well for hours. Then I can take that with me and no longer be hindered by my ailment.
Solutions.
If you don't focus on solutions to problems you're going to miss out on a helluva lot of things that make life great!

Life is too short to make troubles over such trivial things. It just makes everything awkward for everyone and certainly won't do relationships any good.
Life is too short. Find solutions, enjoy it.

[astralsuzy]

Thank you for your suggestions FairyCrystal. I should not have thought they do not think much of me. I am sure they do think of me. A lot has happened. My brother did not let me know my mother had covid. He let my other brother know but not me. He knew he left me out. Other things has happened with my sister in law. On my 60th birthday at the restaurant she lashed out at me. She complained bitterly about my son getting married in another country and it was just the bride and my son there at the wedding. She also put me down in front of everyone at the restaurant. At the moment she is very nice but she is unpredictable. I do not know when she will get nasty again.

I know their world does not evolve around me and I would not expect them to.

It is not just not being invited to their home for a celebration. I would not have a problem with it but when everyone is invited it gets a bit disappointing. It happens all the time now. I know when we get older it gets harder to do things. When I used to go to their home I would always take a plate of food over. You are right I should not feel left out and jump into conclusions. I should just accept it.
I have spoken to the restaurant and they said they cannot guarantee it is gluten free. I have spoken to other restaurants and they said they will not do it. I have taken my own food to the restaurant at the bowling club and my sister in law critized me in front of everyone for taking my own food. She has done that a number of times. If I took my own food it would likely cause problems with my sister in law.
As I said I do not expect the world to accommodate me. I choose not to eat out and that is my choice. I do not complain about it. I accept it. That is the way it is.

[astralsuzy]

I am feeling OK about all this except I am not sure exactly what I am going to say about not going to the restaurant. I will figure it out. It does not worry me that I am not having a special get together with them on my brothers birthday. It is their decision and that is the way it is. If my daughter and partner want to go to the restaurant that is fine. I will not go as I cannot risk my health. My husband and son will not go. I will buy my brother a 70th birthday present. He has a lot of good qualities.

I suggest if you still feel that way that your brother has good qualities about him then by all means - talk to him. Maybe say something in the line with that you're sorry but you are afraid you can not due to your health reason attend the celebration at the restaurant?? Or something of the sort??

The core of all this is that you feel and have been excluded from the group of people that have been invited to his very home. I know of this feeling. If you want things sorted out or think they can be, you could ask him why you have been excluded. On the other hand if I remember it correctly that is you yourself did not want a close relationship with your sister-in-law, if my memory serves me right that is, she would send you pics of the children of the family etc and you did not want that sort of relationship with her. I'm thinking even if it his his celebration, it is her home too - maybe something there we're missing??

If you want the relationships to be improved - then even if it may be tough at first - communication is the key, and to communicate then in the right way. I would not take on 2 at the same time. I would only talk to my brother at first.

Then I would take in consideration if this is something that could very well wait til after his birthday, as this is his day or days. If so I would only write something neutral as a reply that you can not attend the celebration at the restaurant. And send him, give him a gift. I would not want him to have bad memories associated with his 70's celebrations, down to me or anyone, it's his day/days.

People can think very differently, from different perspectives about celebrations and without addressing the background story to what has led up to those thoughts, actions, perspective, and it is so easy that misunderstandings can be made. Believe me as my husband is on the autism spectrum and me being the way I am (in good and bad) social cues, norms can and are read differently, and I have learned these days not to read much into it like I use to. I use to get silent, hurt and withdraw and then when I was ready as he could see something was wrong I would then be angry with him when talking to him, and his first reaction if someone is angry was to defend himself and be angry right back, give me a ****ty attitude, which only made me to then withdraw and be hurt again, and so our evil circle was created. This why I am stressing that you have to communicate and you have to communicate in the right manner if this is to be solved, so is the other person or people or it will not be resolved, but as things has been so infected before, perhaps best to wait til it's over with?? If you have held your breath in for so long without addressing the issue it can be easy to then sound angry if, when opening up about it. I'm like that anyhow. What works best though is if you could sound neutral and ask how the thoughts went that landed in the decision that you and your family were to be invited not to the home but to the restaurant.

If you however do not want a close relationship - then it to me would be perfect if this happened, as they then can not assume or think you would when it is your time to invite them to your home along with the rest of that close-group, but then place them in the other group - the restaurant-group. Then you both know where you have each other, what sort of rule there is, if both parties are good with that??

I hope I have not offended you in any way in any of my words and thoughts, if so I apologize :) I hope all works out, that you won't feel bad about this whole thing.

[astralsuzy]

Thank you ascender, you have not offended me. I do not get offended with criticisms provided it is not nasty. I am honest and I think if it true I will change the way I do things. I keep trying to be the best I can be. I think I like how it is with my brother. I do not want to be too close. He likes to tell me how I should go out and play sport and do certain things. I will ring my brother from time to time to see how he is. I really do not want to be involved with my sister in law. I will be polite and kind to her. I prefer things the way it is. About the restaurant I can say that I am not able to go because I am not well. That is not a lie. Unfortunately it is the truth. My doctor is trying to do everything to help me but so far nothing is working.

You're welcome, that's good. Sorry to learn you are not well and hope the doctor figure it out soon.