What is enlightenment - the way to God

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sky123

I understand what you say about letting them go, to see people suffering and in pain and not be able to take it away from them is horrendous, it's a relief when they pass but still painful regardless.

I think we have to grieve before we can be happy for them, it takes time and they say time is a great healer. I presume you still have your Dads funeral to attend and that will bring back memories of your Mums, double heartache, no wonder Buddha said ' In life there is suffering '
Take care...

Yes, absolutely, it is huge relief, it’s like thank god for that ..

Many can’t stand being ill or not able to do basic things and my parents were like that and kept up with doing most things until the very end .

My dad passed over before he hit the floor, his wife sneezed and he said bless you and then hit the floor .

What a way to go, I am sure he is grateful for that and my mum passed over in her sleep at home not having the strength to walk or do anything but was in no pain .

All graceful passings which make things easier to digest .

What I have found is that I can be happy for them while crying / grieving .. it really is a mixture of all emotions ..

But the process of letting things come out with affirming my blessings seems to be working well ..

I don’t do funerals and it’s well known in my family lol, I don’t tend to be drawn to any traditions like that, I believe that peeps can do what feels right for them, you either love those that pass or you don’t, you can go to a funeral and not have love them .

I deal with things in my own way and my last happy connection had with loved one’s is how I want to envisage them .

I really don’t need the experience of a coffin going into a furnace even though I know they are no longer of this world ..

It is in a way kinda pointless watching a dead body in a box get buried or burn't (in my eyes) .

We do have that openness in our family where there is no pressure put on anyone in this way .. we are all aware of life after this world and if we want to go to peeps funerals that good if not it’s also good ..

It’s not about respect or being disrespectful it’s really is about being true to yourself and those that passed .


x daz x

[sky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Yes, absolutely, it is huge relief, it’s like thank god for that ..

Many can’t stand being ill or not able to do basic things and my parents were like that and kept up with doing most things until the very end .

My dad passed over before he hit the floor, his wife sneezed and he said bless you and then hit the floor .

What a way to go, I am sure he is grateful for that and my mum passed over in her sleep at home not having the strength to walk or do anything but was in no pain .

All graceful passings which make things easier to digest .

What I have found is that I can be happy for them while crying / grieving .. it really is a mixture of all emotions ..

But the process of letting things come out with affirming my blessings seems to be working well ..

I don’t do funerals and it’s well known in my family lol, I don’t tend to be drawn to any traditions like that, I believe that peeps can do what feels right for them, you either love those that pass or you don’t, you can go to a funeral and not have love them .

I deal with things in my own way and my last happy connection had with loved one’s is how I want to envisage them .

I really don’t need the experience of a coffin going into a furnace even though I know they are no longer of this world ..

It is in a way kinda pointless watching a dead body in a box get buried or burn't (in my eyes) .

We do have that openness in our family where there is no pressure put on anyone in this way .. we are all aware of life after this world and if we want to go to peeps funerals that good if not it’s also good ..

It’s not about respect or being disrespectful it’s really is about being true to yourself and those that passed .


x daz x

' What I have found is that I can be happy for them while crying / grieving .. it really is a mixture of all emotions ..'

Yin/Yang in harmony



It's nice to be able to grieve in your own way without criticism from others, that helps. From what I have heard from others, Funerals can cause so much extra hassle as opinions differ on what to do or not do. I have already sorted mine out, as has my Husband, we are not having one, my Family where a little annoyed at first but now they have accepted it and will comply with our wishes. My body's going to Medical Science, that's my wish. They can take what they want for organ transplant, use the rest for reserch and then it goes back to where it came from.... simple.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sky123

' What I have found is that I can be happy for them while crying / grieving .. it really is a mixture of all emotions ..'

Yin/Yang in harmony



It's nice to be able to grieve in your own way without criticism from others, that helps. From what I have heard from others, Funerals can cause so much extra hassle as opinions differ on what to do or not do. I have already sorted mine out, as has my Husband, we are not having one, my Family where a little annoyed at first but now they have accepted it and will comply with our wishes. My body's going to Medical Science, that's my wish. They can take what they want for organ transplant, use the rest for reserch and then it goes back to where it came from.... simple.

That sounds a really good idea sky .. That resonates with me also ..


x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Gem

I think its just that people have their issues, addiction, trauma etc, and enlightenment is more about you as you are rather than being a perfect person.

Trauma, addiction involves psychological memories of the past , which when associated with thought results in cravings and aversions.

If Nisargadatta was having a craving for anything, it would imply vasanas and psychological memories which implies unconsciousness and unenlightenment.

I have been with enlightened masters and have understood this phenomenon to a certain extent. So I could understand that Nisarg was enlightened, and hence had no vasanas and resultant cravings/aversions which really is the ego. Enlightened masters do have their personality quirks, though.

Shirdi Sai Baba slept in a wooden log 6 feet above the ground tied to the ceiling with old clothes. No one ever understood why he slept like thus. He could be rough and abusive at times to conditioned people.

Ramakrishna went into samadhi at odd times, like when seeing a pack of swans flying or upon seeing a schoolboy which reminded him of Krishna in the street.

An enlightened master named Devamrita enjoys art cinema and playing with snakes he finds on the ground.

Nisargadatta himself would hurl abuses at anyone in his satsang whom he felt to be not serious and tell them to leave the place.

Bodhidharma had his share of queer actions.

So there was and will be eccentricities, but it is important to look at the teachings which the master teaches and not at his or her personality.

Most enlightened one's do not venture to teach. It is only those who have past impressions of compassion and are articulate that venture to teach, and this is really a few.

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't know anything about Hinduism but I read a little bit of Nis. I don't know him personally of course, but I would presume he had a nicotine addiction because nicotine is addictive, but he seemed to be OK with that and he lived his lifestyle in his own way. At least, it's not up to me to impose standards an enlightened one (or anyone else) should live up to, so to me, I don't care if he smoked, is addicted to nicotine or not. He speaks as an enlightened teacher and I just accept him as that.

He smoked, but is not an addict as some have passed judgement over here based on their conditioning. I have given ample reasons for this.

He enjoyed smoking and smoked. The fact that an illiterate person like him could give deep teachings on nondualist philosophy (without any scholarly background) that have had great influence all over the world, shows that he speaks from his intuitive wisdom and not from mere book learning.

[running]

Originally Posted by ajay00

Trauma, addiction involves psychological memories of the past , which when associated with thought results in cravings and aversions.

If Nisargadatta was having a craving for anything, it would imply vasanas and psychological memories which implies unconsciousness and unenlightenment.

I have been with enlightened masters and have understood this phenomenon to a certain extent. So I could understand that Nisarg was enlightened, and hence had no vasanas and resultant cravings/aversions which really is the ego. Enlightened masters do have their personality quirks, though.

Shirdi Sai Baba slept in a wooden log 6 feet above the ground tied to the ceiling with old clothes. No one ever understood why he slept like thus. He could be rough and abusive at times to conditioned people.

Ramakrishna went into samadhi at odd times, like when seeing a pack of swans flying or upon seeing a schoolboy which reminded him of Krishna in the street.

An enlightened master named Devamrita enjoys art cinema and playing with snakes he finds on the ground.

Nisargadatta himself would hurl abuses at anyone in his satsang whom he felt to be not serious and tell them to leave the place.

Bodhidharma had his share of queer actions.

So there was and will be eccentricities, but it is important to look at the teachings which the master teaches and not at his or her personality.

Most enlightened one's do not venture to teach. It is only those who have past impressions of compassion and are articulate that venture to teach, and this is really a few.




He smoked, but is not an addict as some have passed judgement over here based on their conditioning. I have given ample reasons for this.

He enjoyed smoking and smoked. The fact that an illiterate person like him could give deep teachings on nondualist philosophy (without any scholarly background) that have had great influence all over the world, shows that he speaks from his intuitive wisdom and not from mere book learning.

doesn't really matter in my view who said what about behaviour having anything to do with enlightement. everything is much easier and desires are dissolved due to the power of bliss and silence. that is without question a fact. for those whom experince it. but since it isn't the only thing being experinced by the individual while alive and in a body other things are enjoyed. such as smoking, eating, sex, and whatever else. even though the base of the experience. the domiant aspect of the experince supersedes and out powers the rest.

with my opinions stated though. it is also a fact that not everybody becomes addicted to nicotine. my mom whom has nothing much to do with spiritual stuff has smoked when ever she felt like it. and not smoked when she didnt. never can recall anytime she had an addiction. so i see it as totally plausible for someone to not become addicted. i think its ridiculiois concern but for those whom it isn't. i share that.

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste and thank you for taking the time to respond.

Most religions and philosophies are set up in such a way that adherents cannot question it - so it should come as no surprise that my treatises on Dharma remain hitherto unchallenged.

It must be that way however, because as soon as it is questioned...as soon as people begin to interpret it in their own way, put their own spin on it and tailor it to suit themselves, it makes Self-realisation or Enlightenment 'conditional' which, it is not. A lot of people will totally hate to hear that attachment to their family or spouse will still incur karma and it is not conducive to Moksha whatsoever - and that is why the Hindu Varnashramas (rites of passage) were established.

I mean, people love...just love to compartmentalise ideologies into the 'greater' and the 'lesser' or even the gunas of Rajas, Tamas and Sattva....but to exist beyond the identification with what is seen as 'good' and 'bad'...'lesser' or 'greater' (viz Mahayana and Hinayana in Buddhism) etc is what Samadhi is all about and in that, there is no room for tolerance...no room for compromise or personal validation...no matter how disturbing and scary it gets...because that is only the view of another who is still bound by Mithyatva (false worldly perceptions) and they will always try to sway others over to their path of adharma by using humanist truisms to justify an ignorant existence.

Karma Yoga is not about 'doing good/helping others' it is all about NOT doing...realising that God actually does everything and the thought of "I am doing" (no matter what activity is involved) is where Ahamkara (ego) comes into play.

When I worship Devi (the goddess) I also have preference for the Green or Red Tara over more stylised representations like Durga or Lakshmi...as I associate Devi with Shakti or raw power and Mahakali seems to be totally overdone and overepresented in that sense...but that is only a personal preference...just another aspect of that which comprises all aspects.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Namaste.

I've just started studying some of the Buddhist sutras and there is a frequent pattern where the Buddha would refuse to answer questions because he knows they are not ready. Knowing full well that any answer he gives would cause more harm than good due to misinterpretation and proliferation of ignorance. So there is the concept of "skillful means". Adapting to the needs of the moment with wisdom and patience and right action. I see Buddhism as an offshoot/child of Hinduism so please pardon my emphasis in that direction. I'm still working my way around to Hinduism while I merge Christianity and Buddhism and many other things.

Regarding Nis, just would like to say he is very influential for me. I read "I Am That" and he is the first Hindu teacher who I found I could relate to easily. Well Alan Watts was actually the first but I'm not sure if I would call him Hindu though he certainly "got it" I think.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by winter light

Namaste.

I've just started studying some of the Buddhist sutras and there is a frequent pattern where the Buddha would refuse to answer questions because he knows they are not ready. Knowing full well that any answer he gives would cause more harm than good due to misinterpretation and proliferation of ignorance. So there is the concept of "skillful means". Adapting to the needs of the moment with wisdom and patience and right action. I see Buddhism as an offshoot/child of Hinduism so please pardon my emphasis in that direction. I'm still working my way around to Hinduism while I merge Christianity and Buddhism and many other things.

Regarding Nis, just would like to say he is very influential for me. I read "I Am That" and he is the first Hindu teacher who I found I could relate to easily. Well Alan Watts was actually the first but I'm not sure if I would call him Hindu though he certainly "got it" I think.

Namaste.

I recall a story where two aspirants approached Buddha..

"Is there a God?" one asked of the Buddha...

"No, there isn't a God" the Buddha replied.

The second aspirant approached Buddha...

"Is there a God?" he asked...

"Yes, there is a God" the Buddha replied.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[winter light]

Namaste.

Yes good story and makes sense. I heard a similar story that went like this:

"Is there a God?"

Buddha says nothing.

"Oh I see, so you say there is no God?"

Buddha says nothing again.


A similar effect. Sometimes people need reassurance with an answer. Sometimes just need to allow people to go inward and find it out for themselves. And the teacher's attention and presence matters more than the answer given.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste

I was watching some random Youtube videos last night, just following the recommendations...and I saw one "Instant Enlightenment" by Papaji.

I don't know if I became "enlightened" but all I know is I couldn't stop laughing for hours. Enjoy.
https://youtu.be/vnsmOXD4iE8

Aum Namah Shivaya

***

LOL

[SimpleMan]

I think that enlightenment is the moment when you see the truth of all things, when you become the observer, the absolute observer, I think, that, in that moment, you understand that everything is an illusion, created by your own mind with your own accord.

Imagine that you see an wonderful movie, this movie is so great that you forget it's just a movie, so, you get caught into that reality.Now, that reality, being in fact an illusion, becomes your reality ( even for just a moment ).When the movie ends, you understand that it wasn't real, this happens when we die.Now, what would happen if you could see how that movie was made? Well, then you would see its true nature.You would understand instantly that it is not real, that is just the product of the human mind.This, i call, enlightenment, seeing the true nature of reality.

This is just my humble opinion about it, I may be wrong, I am still learning.